Council race disappointment

Reggie

District Champion
Feb 18, 2017
149
44
28
54
Osceola Mills, Pennsylvania
We just had our council race last night and it was terrible. My son's car and his best friends car, which I helped build. Completely tanked. They ran worse than the pack race. Both cars where basically the same. I did everything to the letter all of the tips I picked up from here. I should have left them alone. But we wanted to be faster. So after the pack race I purchased the black ice polishing kit. Did both sets of wheels. I tightened up the wheel gaps. The lifted wheel I had tight to the car body. I had around 4 to 5 inches of steer in 4 feet. It made the cars worse. I really don't know what I did wrong. I feel bad for the boys. They where so disappointed. I have year to get it right.
 
We just had our council race last night and it was terrible. My son's car and his best friends car, which I helped build. Completely tanked. They ran worse than the pack race. Both cars where basically the same. I did everything to the letter all of the tips I picked up from here. I should have left them alone. But we wanted to be faster. So after the pack race I purchased the black ice polishing kit. Did both sets of wheels. I tightened up the wheel gaps. The lifted wheel I had tight to the car body. I had around 4 to 5 inches of steer in 4 feet. It made the cars worse. I really don't know what I did wrong. I feel bad for the boys. They where so disappointed. I have year to get it right.

Welcome to my world ....;) I have been where you are at and it is not a pleasant place to be. However ...this is a real important time to teach the boys what life is about. You can cave and give in to the bad feelings or you can choose to move forward and teach them a valuable life lesson. I am an optimist so I think you will move forward!

Now for the analytical part of my brain. Did the cars really tank? Did they race on the same track. Was it set up the same? What were the times? Did they have any of the same competition? Was the competition just that much better? How did the cars act? All of these questions can help you determine was there something actually wrong or were there new variables that caused you to believe you went the wrong direction when in fact, you may need to step up your game. My guess is that the answer is probably some of both (speaking from experience).

Take a collective breath and think about these questions. Then take another and think about what you want to teach the boys. Then get busy and start to figure out how much of what you believe is true (the cars tanked) and how much of it is that the variables changed and the competition was better?

Just so you know, I may be back here in a month with the same sort of issue as we are making lots of changes before my son's last district race. We have never won the pack race, but have been second. I am hoping that we can get a handle on all of the changes for the district race. We are keeping a positive attitude and troubleshooting each step of the build together as issues arise.

Remember for the boys ...if you did your best then you did what you were supposed to do. Also, next year your "best" will be at a new level because of what you continued to learn! :)

Keep your head up as the boys are watching what you do!!!!

Also, if you do discover some mistakes, make sure to discuss them with the boys. Then make plans on how you will do it better next time. This will keep them involved and learning not only about Pinewood Derby, but also about how to handle life when it doesn't go exactly as planned.
 
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The cars ran slower. It seemed liked putting more steer in them made them run worse. 42' besttrack to 42' bestrack. My son's car went from 218mph to 201mph. From everyone's advice here on the forum I added more steer to get rid of a wiggle. Originally for the pack race the steer was about 2" in 4'. Like I said I readjusted to 4 to 5. I don't know.
 
The rules for the pack race are really restrictive. I think if he does well at the pack race we will build an extended wheelbase car for the council race. That is if we can bounce back from this one.
 
Sorry you didn't do as wel as you hoped. I know the feeling! My oldest son went from 2nd overall to 5th the next year. He was definitely disappointed, but bounce back and come back with a vengeance like we did! Build with the info you learn here, you can't go wrong.
It can be hard to trouble shoot a wiggle issue. Adding the steer isn't always the answere but more times than none it solves the problem. Adding a little more steer would only slow you down a few thousands per inch. When you changed your steer did u tune it on the same board with no changes? A rear wheel that is slightly out of alignment could give you this wiggle affect. Also a wheel with a larger bore could give the same affect as well. How did you weight your cars? Was it an aggressive weight placement?
If you have the space, build yourself a test track there's a bunch of plans online that are relatively inexpensive. It gives you a little piece of mind when you make changes to your build. Like Bulldog said, tune it to beat your fastest or kill it trying!
 
Reggie,

I went back and looked ...here is what I found. "Since then we changed to a better set of wheels and axles. Changed the wheel gap to what I posted above. My main question is the steer."

So you changed the steer, gaps, different wheels, and different axles, correct? I know at my skill level, without being able to test between changes, I would struggle to know what affect each change made? The Pros here probably can make these changes in their sleep, but I know I can't.

The good news is that you have found a great resource here for information. Take some time and evaluate what happened and then move forward to the next car. Make sure to have some fun with the kids while doing it!
 
bottom line is you are gonna have to find a way to test either make you a track or find someone that has a track close to you to test...biuld some car practice craft and get better
 
I have year to get it right.
You do not need to wait a year. Race with John or in the Box Stock / BASX Am class in the NPWDRL. It is very hard (actually, nearly impossible) to build a fast car when you only build one car per year without some direct assistance from an experienced racer or a way to test your car yourself. I would seriously consider buying 2 or 3 sets of wheels and axles from DD4H and consider building during the year at a more leisurely pace (I prefer John's products myself). Weight you can harvest out of your existing car car, or maybe buy extra weight as well. No reason why you can not work with the kids year-round.
 
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Thanks guys I appreciate all of the positive feedback. Your right I shouldn't wait a year to get it right. I definitely need a way to test after making changes even if I get a single lane track. Looks like I have work to do now. Plus I'd really like to get my son involved more than a couple races a year.
 
The cars ran slower. It seemed liked putting more steer in them made them run worse. 42' besttrack to 42' bestrack. My son's car went from 218mph to 201mph.

Even though both tracks were Best Tracks and 42', you cannot compare the speeds and say your car was slower.
My BASX car runs 2.9311 on John's track at the Pinewood Performance Shop. That same car runs 2.9585 on the NPWDRL track. Both tracks are 42', both are Best Tracks. Both speeds won the race that day at their respective locations.

Without a test track or being able to test your changes on the same track, you cannot draw any useful conclusions other than if the added steer eliminated the wiggle.

Best of luck and jump in the racing action. We'd be glad to have you race with us.
 
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We had a real bad year once too where our car just death wobbled down the track and didn't even make top 3 in his den. After that we started trying to figure these things out but didn't have a track close by. One year a guy on here let us use his track but I didn't know what I was doing and it didn't help us much. We hit a track last year but we didn't know how to stage consistently so our times were all over the place.
We built the cars conservative for the Pack race then more aggressive as we moved from District to Council. We tuned and aligned on our kitchen table. We started keeping track of car specs each race so we had a target each year. We built 5 cars in 5 yrs. Here is the spec sheet we kept over the years. Hope this helps you get more consistent.
d5ccce2f-254f-4064-84b1-32cafd43f46b.jpg
 
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We had a real bad year once too where our car just death wobbled down the track and didn't even make top 3 in his den. After that we started trying to figure these things out but didn't have a track close by. One year a guy on here let us use his track but I didn't know what I was doing and it didn't help us much. We hit a track last year but we didn't know how to stage consistently so our times were all over the place.
We built the cars conservative for the Pack race then more aggressive as we moved from District to Council. We tuned and aligned on our kitchen table. We started keeping track of car specs each race so we had a target each year. We built 5 cars in 5 yrs. Here is the spec sheet we kept over the years. Hope this helps you get more consistent.
d5ccce2f-254f-4064-84b1-32cafd43f46b.jpg
I'm sure it will come to that kind note keeping. I noticed your wheelbase's are extended. Our pack does not allow extended wheelbase so we are stuck with 4 3/8. The council race we are allowed to extend it. I think we will build two cars. We seem to run faster on the packs track anyway.
 
Even though both tracks were Best Tracks and 42', you cannot compare the speeds and say your car was slower.
My BASX car runs 2.9311 on John's track at the Pinewood Performance Shop. That same car runs 2.9585 on the NPWDRL track. Both tracks are 42', both are Best Tracks. Both speeds won the race that day at their respective locations.

Without a test track or being able to test your changes on the same track, you cannot draw any useful conclusions other than if the added steer eliminated the wiggle.

Best of luck and jump in the racing action. We'd be
Even though both tracks were Best Tracks and 42', you cannot compare the speeds and say your car was slower.
My BASX car runs 2.9311 on John's track at the Pinewood Performance Shop. That same car runs 2.9585 on the NPWDRL track. Both tracks are 42', both are Best Tracks. Both speeds won the race that day at their respective locations.

Without a test track or being able to test your changes on the same track, you cannot draw any useful conclusions other than if the added steer eliminated the wiggle.

Best of luck and jump in the racing action. We'd be glad to have you race with us.
Thanks, I am definitely going to give it a shot it looks like a lot of fun. I'm sure my wife will love it lol!
 
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