Cub Build

[MacDaddy]

Looking for a bit of advice. I have read the tips from the king and am planning a 3/8 to 1/2 in. build with a combination of lead and tungsten wt. Right now my major stumbling block are some pesky rules. The ones which are relevant are:

AXLE CHANNEL:
The channel or groove designed to hold the axle must not be a filled-in. judge must be able to inspect the axle. If axles are loose secure them with transparent glue.
AXLES:
Only the nails supplied with the kit are permitted. They must be mounted in the wood grooves only. The axles may be glued inplace with transparent glue. They may be polished or lubricated but not machined narrower.
DETAILS:
Details such as Steering Wheels, Driver Decals, Painting, etc. are permitted as long as these details do not exceed the maximum length, width and weight specifications.
LUBRICATION:
Dry Lubrication only is permitted.
WHEELS:
Only Grand Prix Wheels supplied with the kit may be used. Alterations are not permitted – the wheels may not be cut, drilled, beveled or rounded. The shape must remain the same. The plastic flashing may be removed (outside edge).

This is not my first build. I have done well with prepping stock wheels and axels (although I go through a lot to find straight ones). I will be adding fenders and extending the front of the car with a piece from the back end and am on the fence between dads oil (as it seems to be dry after applied) and his graphite. I should be able to get my COM around 3/4". So my main question is the axels. I have, in the past drilled into the wood grooves so that I could press the axels in without a hammer. As you all know this is not at all accurate and even with a drill press I get at least 1 wonky wheel (and I've never tried canting). If I use dads drill block will I be able to set the bit at the wood grooves so that the axels will clearly be seen or is the cant at too much of an angle for it to pass inspection?

 

[TRE]

you can drill canted axles in the slots..make you use 44 drill bit so they are tight then put drop of super glue in there by the tips of the axles to hold them..you can still see the axles

 

[MacDaddy]

Thanks, would you use a block for that or just try to eyeball it? I have an old block that looks similar to a c-clamp but that just gives me 0 degrees.

 

[Chief]

DD4H oil is not only faster, but faster to do and graphite is WAY TOO MESSY!!! If you run the oil you will want some Jig A Loo spray and if you cannot find it I have heard a good substitute is the 3M silicone spray. As far as canting, you can search the forum for the chart but different size pins will give you different degrees of cant. Only cant the rears, drill the front straight and bend the DFW axle for your steer and you should be good to go.

 

[MacDaddy]

Thanks.

 

[HurriCrane Racing]

My approach is to drill the rears canted and then cut a slot in the appropriate spot.
An easier approach would be to get a plug and play block from DD4H that is drill and slotted.

 

[GravityX]

My approach is to drill the rears canted and then cut a slot in the appropriate spot.
An easier approach would be to get a plug and play block from DD4H that is drill and slotted.

Use a hacksaw to cut the slot after the holes are drilled, just deep enough to expose the nail.

+1 on the plug and play block.

 

[MacDaddy]

Like others on the forum buying a plug and play is out of the question as I will build the car as a father/son project. No question Dad's plug and play will be faster than I will make. I would rather lose than run something someone else built and claim it is mine. I reread the rules and must have confused them with another set of rules I had seen on another thread. Since the rules of my district does not say that I bust use the original grooves I am ok with drilling and cutting new grooves. One other question. I am going to use tungsten for weight and should get close to com of 3/4". My packs track has one funky lane that makes our race (elimination not timed) a bit of a lottery. One year we had cars flying off the track left and right and the following year that was solved but it still has a slight "bump". I am considering putting a hole (to be covered with speed tape) toward the front of the car to bring com more forward with putty for our pack race and move it to another more toward the back for the district (which has a glass smooth track). Maybe I'm trying to over engineer this?

 

[TRE]

I would just make front weight pocket bigger so you can move weight forward then back

 

[MacDaddy]

Thanks for everyone's input. I wish I would have seen this site sooner. Just using a few of the tips on my existing cars would have made them faster. I have a few things ordered from dad and will start building as soon as they arrive.

 

[txchemist]

If you are allowed to super glue the axle in place, then there will be NO possible inspection on the axle to see that it really is out of the kit or aftermarket. Not a lot of information the typical judge will be able to glean from looking at the bottom of an axle through some glue. He can tell it is not a needle axle- that is about all. So the original intent of "fairness" is now actually going to create an even wider separation of cars with serious tools vs give it a go with a hammer.

 

[MacDaddy]

I now know (from reading the website and looking at dad's website) that I could win districts but at what cost (both dollars and personal integrity)? This is our 3rd year doing the pwd. The first year I used some gorilla glue on the axel and thought that there is no way of fairly policing these rules. I also have some experience with a metal lathe and thought that I could have cut out a lot of surface area of the axels under the wheel and no one would know (except me). I'm sure that I will once again loose to someone at districts that either buys a car, builds one beyond what I would think would be legal or simply builds one within the limits better than we do. How would I know? As long as my son and I build a car that is competitive within my understanding of the rules I will be happy. I may even build the dang thing with the COM so far back that it could get eliminated by jumping off the track when running down the wonky lane inherent in our packs track.

 

[txchemist]

Please do not do anything that would go against your personal integrity- all I was pointing out was that you get unintended consequences with stupid rules. Now I follow the rules, and in our area, the rules change year to year, and the District is wide open to allow for any Pack that allows aftermarket to run their cars, so some years we build two cars, one for Pack and one for District, so "integrity" on some parts of the build, is relative to changing rules in pinewood. When we can, we should try and change the rules to make them enforceable or drop them, and as more and more families and partial families do not have even a hand drill in their small apartments, allowing aftermarket, or better yet, providing a good kit in the first place should be a driving factor in the rules.

 

[Chief]

When we can, we should try and change the rules to make them enforceable or drop them, and as more and more families and partial families do not have even a hand drill in their small apartments, allowing aftermarket, or better yet, providing a good kit in the first place should be a driving factor in the rules.

Or the "person"(for a lack of a better name) that made the rules needs to volunteer their time and tools to help those individuals that lack the tools/skills in a work shop so that the scouts and parents do get quality time and education and a competitive PWD car.

 

[ngyoung]

I will pile on and suggest drilling the holes then sawing your own slots to expose the axles. You can buy a few wheel packs from the scouy office that are legal with your rules to pick the best nails and at least find 2 mold matched wheels for the rear. You could buy the BSA dynasty wheels, leaving the double step, which would be trued at least and falls under removing the flashing mold marks.

What did you do in the past to prep the axles and wheels? Following the DD4H process will make a huge difference along with getting your axle holes drilled properly. Was your scout's car competitive at districts last year?

Hopefully they do some inspection to enforce the rules so you don't feel like you need to go gung-ho with aftermarket parts to win. I know with our districts last year i could have got away with using whatever wheel short of razors. Inspection was a Weblos scout putting the car in a dimensions and track clearance box and checking the weight.

 

[MacDaddy]

txchemist- I hope I didn't come across rude by my poor use of words. I guess what I was trying to say that both cost of the project and my willingness to push the limits of my understanding of the rules are what limit me. I was not trying to infer that anyone was trying to tell me to "cheat". I agree that many of these rules are so poorly written that they are open to interpretation and should be better written to reflect what is enforceable.
Chief- I think the problem is that rules are made at the district level and the burden then lies on the individual packs to support their families. Some Packs have better skill sets then others. Some hold clinics on how to build cars and others do not.
ngyoung- I was considering drilling my axel holes into the existing slots unless the slots are not true (maybe that's a bit too lazy). I have my own set of tools and buffers for the axel. They come out about the same if you took them to a jeweler and asked them to do the job for you. I do make sure I start with straight nails (I find about 1 in 5 acceptable). I have not done much prep with the actual wheels other than light sanding and buffing the outside radius and use hobby graphite. Last year we placed 13th of about 85 at districts.

 

[ngyoung]

The thing i would worry about is your drill bit wandering when drilling in the existing slot. It will try to go toward the path of least resistance.

 

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I will be adding fenders and extending the front of the car with a piece from the back end and am on the fence between dads oil (as it seems to be dry after applied) and his graphite.

If the DD4H oil is dry after applied, would it be legal for scout races that allow only dry lube?

 

[pony express]

Drilling in existing slots will result in the drill bit following the slot. The cant will probably be off. In the old days I'd have to experiment with manually adjusting the axle in the slot. A larger cant was better tolerated on the DFW side. Some of the rules that say you need to use the slots mean you need to use that wheel base. Try drilling just above the slots and then cut the slot deeper. You can always sand away the bottom to get back to the desired thickness. If you're worried about the rules I'd build two identical cars with a strict interpretation of the rules and another with holes just above the slots. Most of the time when drilling just above the slots the axle ends up in the slot anyway because of the cant direction. That should satisfy the rules committee.

 

[B_Regal Racing]

If the DD4H oil is dry after applied, would it be legal for scout races that allow only dry lube?

In spirit of the rules, I would say oil is illegal, but to the letter of the law, its more or less dry if applied sometime prior to the race. I have seen much debate surrounding your question. I will say oil is much cleaner, for both your car and the track when used correctly.

A tidbit before choosing oil as your lube:

With oil, there are some tricks to making it fast. Incorrectly used, graphite can can be faster, since I believe there is less skill necessary in appling graphite than oil. If you poke around on this website using the search feature, you will find all of the basic tricks necessary to apply oil correctly. Done correctly, oil is faster, hands down. Trust me when I say, there are many here who are still searching for the exact technique to prep a car using oil to be the "top dog", myself included. You might even consider purchasing the DD4H DVD - considering what you will invest in this car and the others you will build as your cub advances, the DVD isn't that expensive (and it will help you).