+1 for the build off using each persons own material. I'd love to see that live! But you're right. You are the only one saying you'll race them, but no one races you.
Derby Dust
- Thread starter Obsessedderbydad
- Start date
Question along the lines of DD4H's post above: Has any of the other vendors, Derby Worx, MaxV, Dust, Professor, Evolution, and whoever else there is, ever actually raced in any of the leagues, even the defunct ones?
If so, were they ever fast? I have seen claims the last couple years as I found my way here that a couple of them claim to have won some titles...and that may be, but how long ago? Do any send cars to the Mid America?
Is anyone here using wheels or axles from anywhere else besides DD4H or their own? (and would they admit it if they were, lol?)
If so, were they ever fast? I have seen claims the last couple years as I found my way here that a couple of them claim to have won some titles...and that may be, but how long ago? Do any send cars to the Mid America?
Is anyone here using wheels or axles from anywhere else besides DD4H or their own? (and would they admit it if they were, lol?)
Most of them claim to be fast based on scout PWD races. Derby dust uses derby worx wheels, but most of them only talk about their speed with graphite, not oil. Txchemist said he raced derby dust at their scout race and blew him away. I dont think they will ever race in the NPWDL b.c if they did and lose ( which they probably would) they would lose their credibility of their products. John's not affraid to race anyone and even have data of his product vs other products. You'll see others compare, but pick and chose who they compare theirs to. No comparisons ever show them actually racing. When asked why they don't race John they just call him a jerk and bully as you can read before and that's their justification why they won't race him.
At least of my very short history (maybe a couple of years) I think the main show down is at mid america. I believe someone entered a car a couple of years ago under one of the vendors names (I believe coach's secret) and the car was extremely slow, and the vendor denied making/sending it in.
The only vendors that race(d) league races are Jewkes, Spacewalker, Evo, and Derby Dominator. The Jewkes dominated in their time and were legit racers. Spacewalker has the guts to race also and is very competitive. He does not produce any parts though and is a mish mosh of a rebranded version of My/Jewkes products and Derby Worx. Evo... well, as you can see from his site he is also pretty much of a knockoff artist and he will league race where he is safe. You won't see him here because he can't win. Derby Dominator did well with the needle type cars in the old days of PWDR. He never raced with us. Derby Monkey tried one time and got obliterated at Blue Grass Nationals. The Derby Worx vendors were forbidden to race with PDDR/NPWDRL so you won't see them here. Space and Evo might show up at a live race now and then because they can handle their own cars. You will hear from them that we won't allow them to win if they race proxy but you can see from the results that it is about the same when Space races live or proxy.
The fact is this, the knowledge is all available and all these guys should be just about as fast as anyone else. Evo and Space came throught the learning process with the Jewkes and me so they better be fast. If they can't win then they can't make the claims they do so they stay away and are free to make the claims.
If you didn't or couldn't buy products from me then I would send you to Jewkes. They have also put the time in developing all the products the others are just copying.
Give Derby Dust the credit, he is at least original!
Oh yeah, the last time we saw the vendors all racing each other was at Mid America a year and half ago... LOL, how did that one go again?
Let's see... http://www.mid-americaderby.com/2012-results
The fact is this, the knowledge is all available and all these guys should be just about as fast as anyone else. Evo and Space came throught the learning process with the Jewkes and me so they better be fast. If they can't win then they can't make the claims they do so they stay away and are free to make the claims.
If you didn't or couldn't buy products from me then I would send you to Jewkes. They have also put the time in developing all the products the others are just copying.
Give Derby Dust the credit, he is at least original!
Oh yeah, the last time we saw the vendors all racing each other was at Mid America a year and half ago... LOL, how did that one go again?
Let's see... http://www.mid-americaderby.com/2012-results
Coach sent in a complete kit and it was assembled exactly by his instructions by a top racer.... it was slow yes. Winning a scout race is not that hard. Coach, Dust and others claim to be the best by being able to beat cub scouts....
Okay this may be a real stupid question, but I am learning alot from reading the post on here. I used something called Jascom. I think it equates to a tungsten Molly boron Graphite if that makes sense. I can't complain as it did well and we won the pack went on to district and did ok but not fantastic. I have heard everyone on here say DD4H has the best lube. Any one tell me what makes it great, and what I should be using? We have polished the axles down to a 3000 grit paper and used Novus polishing compound in the hub, turned and polished the wheels. Are ther any other thigs I should consider doing to held tweek this car? and I wanna have every competitve edge on my side. I surely appreciate all the insight and help from you fellas.
Damn John, those are some fast times. And the consistantcy between your 2 cars! Only off by 0.001, that's just nuts. What did derby dust race under? Alias?
Has anyone done a head to head comparison of DD4H graphite to XLR8 graphite? I compared XLR8 to Max Velocity Lube and the XLR8 gave faster times on average 0.01 seconds faster. This would seem to equate to the same advantage DD4H had over Max Velocity Lube. My testing was done on a 29 foot track. I ran the car with each lube 20 times and used compressed air between lubes to eliminate the graphite.
My son's car won our Pack Derby with XLR8 and we are now moving on to District. Would love to get a bit faster. On our test tract our fastest time with XLR8 was 2.4289 for 29 feet. With XLR8 the car consistently runs on average 2.434. If there is some data that DD4H graphite has been shown to be faster than XLR8, I would definitely buy it to test.
Forum is great. Wish I would have found it 2 years ago!!
Steve
My son's car won our Pack Derby with XLR8 and we are now moving on to District. Would love to get a bit faster. On our test tract our fastest time with XLR8 was 2.4289 for 29 feet. With XLR8 the car consistently runs on average 2.434. If there is some data that DD4H graphite has been shown to be faster than XLR8, I would definitely buy it to test.
Forum is great. Wish I would have found it 2 years ago!!
Steve
DD4H graphite is faster. If you did nothing to the wheels and axles and put in each graphite, DD4H would be faster. Now if you will search the forum on how to use it and burnish it into your wheels it will be even faster...Hint:Red Rocket. and Welcome to the Forum
Times and tracks will be different for everyone. I didn't do a side by side comparison, but I did use DD4H graphite at our district race. I posted times on another thread. We had 12 runs and while everyone else's graphite was wearing off, I had my fastest most consistant runs at runs 9-12
Thanks for the replies! I will order it and give it a try. I read through the topics on burnishing. Sounds like that won't be a viable option for us as the wheels and axels are already on the car and balanced. Car is going straight as an arrow and I don't want to risk the alignment by removing the wheels and axels.
My goal is to apply graphite to the assembled car using the best graphite I can find with the best application method.
Steve
My goal is to apply graphite to the assembled car using the best graphite I can find with the best application method.
Steve
I highly suggest the Red Rocket polish that John sells as well. I have used the XLR8 prior and found that DD4H was quicker. What type of track are you going to run on at district? How is your car set up to run, cant'd axles, rail rider? I have found that you can be a little more aggressive on an aluminum track. Depending where, what type used, and how your weight is dispersed you may be able to pick up some speed by shifting it back slightly. Some of the top racers on here can give you a good formula for front of back axle to behind rear axle ratio. Oher great tips I have picked up on this sight is make sure your wheel surface is clean. To win our district you had to 2.58 on a 35ft aluminum . I hope this helps.You are for sure in the right place for great help. If time and the body allows you may ask about fenders....
District rules require all 4 wheels to touch the track and no rail riders. The front to rear axel distance must be the stock distance that comes with the block.
Given how well we did for the Pack race, which was on an aluminum track, I am reluctant to pull the wheels and axels off and apply wax, burnish etc... I don't want to risk breaking slots or having misaligned wheels resulting in wobble. Right now the car is running really straight.
The District race will be on a wooden track.
My test track at home is vinyl/plastic. It is a good set up, 29 feet with an automatic timer that activates when you launch the car and stops when car passes finish line.
Any tips on adding DD4H graphite to wheels/axels that are already in place to maximize effect?
Steve
Given how well we did for the Pack race, which was on an aluminum track, I am reluctant to pull the wheels and axels off and apply wax, burnish etc... I don't want to risk breaking slots or having misaligned wheels resulting in wobble. Right now the car is running really straight.
The District race will be on a wooden track.
My test track at home is vinyl/plastic. It is a good set up, 29 feet with an automatic timer that activates when you launch the car and stops when car passes finish line.
Any tips on adding DD4H graphite to wheels/axels that are already in place to maximize effect?
Steve
Coffee stirrer straw to apply the graphite.
Your rules for the race are ridiculous. You aren't allowed to make a rail runner?! WTF? Try enforcing that one. Oh no my car is running straight down the rail, does that disqualify me? Plus trying to enforce 4 on the floor is almost impossible since most slots are not straight or even. I love when packs try to over engineer the rules to make it "fair" for everyone. Here's the key every rule maker misses. It's impossible to make it fair for everyone b.c you'll always have dad's that build a car in a day and you'll have dad's that work with their son and teach them over a month. What's the next rule? Rule 6.1.2.1 You can only spend 30min a day working on the car and must video the scout working on the entire thing and if you're car is too fast then you're cheating and we need more rules.
Your rules for the race are ridiculous. You aren't allowed to make a rail runner?! WTF? Try enforcing that one. Oh no my car is running straight down the rail, does that disqualify me? Plus trying to enforce 4 on the floor is almost impossible since most slots are not straight or even. I love when packs try to over engineer the rules to make it "fair" for everyone. Here's the key every rule maker misses. It's impossible to make it fair for everyone b.c you'll always have dad's that build a car in a day and you'll have dad's that work with their son and teach them over a month. What's the next rule? Rule 6.1.2.1 You can only spend 30min a day working on the car and must video the scout working on the entire thing and if you're car is too fast then you're cheating and we need more rules.
I totally agree, but we are stuck with what we have. At check in they place the car on a flat surface and if all 4 wheels don't touch you either make an adjustment (difficult to impossible) or you are not allowed to race. That said, this is our fourth year and we have made it to the District race 3 out of 4 and won the District once.
This is our last District race as my son moves up to Boy Scouts this year.
Do you cut the coffee stirrer straw to make a point?
Thanks
Steve
This is our last District race as my son moves up to Boy Scouts this year.
Do you cut the coffee stirrer straw to make a point?
Thanks
Steve
I found some very fine applicators at Hobby Lobby that actually fit very nice between the wheel bores and axle while in place. They run about $2 for a pack of 12. Because of the design of the bottle, it is a little easier to use an applicator like this to insure you are getting the majority of it in the bore. Other great suggestions I have seen on here is use a swivel straw(coffee stirer) I found that the applicators worked well for me and kept the majority in the bore. The other thing you may want to consider is very carfully apply some of his graphite to the body near the axle slots as well as just on the wheel molding inside edge and cone to reuduce friction on the car and track guide.Good luck I am sure you will do well!!!!SteveL said:
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