Moral Dilemma

[DerbyJP]

My son's pack race is in 2 weeks - following practice this past weekend, I'm faced with a bit of a moral dilemma. Our rules state that axles must be installed parallel to the track/bottom of the car, so no canting is allowed. My son's primary car was about the same speed, if not slightly slower, than another car that I know canted the back wheels (I was at the weigh-in table and saw for myself). I chose to not say anything yesterday - complicating matters is the fact that the boy is my son's best friend and our families are friendly - and there is really no inspection that will catch it.

We also happen to have built a car w/canted wheels and it tested faster than both my son's primary car and his friends.

So...my options are:

1) Use our canted wheel car (my son knows it's against the rules, so this really isn't much of an option in my opinion).
2) Say nothing and hope we somehow win, despite the fact my son and I both know they are not following the rules (perhaps they don't even realize it).
3) Tell the PWD chairman about it (probably should have yesterday if I was going to).
4) Mention to the dad of the boy (like I said, we're friendly) that I noticed the canted wheels and technically they aren't allowed. Or just find a way to casually mention we're not using our fastest car because it has illegally canted wheels.

Thoughts? I don't post much, but lurk enough to know where VK stands already /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif

 

[Crash Enburn]

Go with Option #4. It's entirely possible that he doesn't know his car isn't legal. And if he does know, he has the shame of knowing you know.

After that, mention to the PWD chairman what you saw (not who), and recommend that the inspectors make a point of checking for canted wheels/axles.

Several years ago, I helped out at our District PWD and staged cars for the Bears (my son was Webelos, so no conflict of interest there). I noticed a car with obviously canted wheels (the rules stated that it had to be four wheels running flat), and pointed it out to the PWD chair. Since the car had (errantly) passed inspection, he let it run. I did my best to stage that car poorly, but it still walked away with first place. When they were doing the awards, I found out that boys from my pack placed 2nd and 3rd with legal cars. It still eats at me that I didn't push harder to have that car DQ'd.

 

[derbychip]

I like what crash said.... Couple ?'s
is the car in question using slots or drilled holes?

Obviously if drilled the dad is aware there canted, and if the car is fast then I would tend to think he has some Pwd knowledge or at least researched it, so if he reads to learn how to go faster he surely has read the rules knowing he is breaking them. With that being said I'm sure there is more done that possibility breaks more rules

 

[BulldogRacing]

I have a different option in mind. I would address the person who is in charge of the rules. I would send them an e-mail with a link to a video of PWD cars that run canted wheels. The video will show the distinct huge advantage. Explain that you and your son had noticed that cars were built with wheels like this, you also have tried a build this way and it is faster then your "legal" car. Explain that you will not teach your boy to cheat butt would like it if you were allowed to run canted because you would like to be competitive to the cars that are already running this way. It would suck to have a kid DQed so try and give a heads up. I would volunteer to make sure all participants are aware of how to cant the wheels and offer to help drill the cars with them. Point them to the video or this site. Educate, demonstrate, guide, enable.

 

[Quicktimederby]

Do the rules say the bottom of the car has to be flat? If not use the canted car and sand the bottom of the car in a way that the axles are parallel to the bottom. You will be following the rules and able to run canted wheels. No moral delemma.

 

[Rocket car]

Do the rules say the bottom of the car has to be flat? If not use the canted car and sand the bottom of the car in a way that the axles are parallel to the bottom. You will be following the rules and able to run canted wheels. No moral delemma.

Soooo what your saying is make the bottom of the car in a V shape. Creative!!

 

[DerbyJP]

Do the rules say the bottom of the car has to be flat? If not use the canted car and sand the bottom of the car in a way that the axles are parallel to the bottom. You will be following the rules and able to run canted wheels. No moral delemma.

I like your thinking, but the rules say the axles have to be "parallel to the bottom of the car AND the track".

 

[Rocket car]

So, could you install the axles strait into the body and DARE I say bend them upwards? You said nothing about being alloud to bend the axles.

 

[Vitamin K]

So, could you install the axles strait into the body and DARE I say bend them upwards? You said nothing about being alloud to bend the axles.

 

[DerbyJP]

So, could you install the axles strait into the body and DARE I say bend them upwards? You said nothing about being alloud to bend the axles.

I did think about that - in fact, for all I know the other car(s) that appear canted could just have bent axles. The problem with doing that is I have no more track time prior to the race and I wouldn't want to mess up a car that still has a chance to win even without it (I hadn't used pledge before practice, or burnished the graphite into wheel bores it was loose only, so expect to gain a slight amount of time anyway).

How would I ensure speed gains doing it w/bent axles without practice time? Would tuning board and watching axle migration be enough?

 

[Vitamin K]

So, could you install the axles strait into the body and DARE I say bend them upwards? You said nothing about being alloud to bend the axles.

I did think about that - in fact, for all I know the other car(s) that appear canted could just have bent axles. The problem with doing that is I have no more track time prior to the race and I wouldn't want to mess up a car that still has a chance to win even without it (I hadn't used pledge before practice, or burnished the graphite into wheel bores it was loose only, so expect to gain a slight amount of time anyway).

How would I ensure speed gains doing it w/bent axles without practice time? Would tuning board and watching axle migration be enough?

I am almost too gun-shy to actually comment on this, but what-the-hey. They tried to vote me off before, and I'm still here...

So, assuming you've decided that bent axles best fit your situation, I'd recommend you look at Stan Pope's work for bent axle alignment methods. He uses "tuning weights" to isolate each rear axle during testing, in order to be able to adjust them independently.

 

[Crash Enburn]

* Off-Topic *

VK - Your Trump response cracked me up. /images/boards/smilies/rofl.gif

 

[txchemist]

So a group I help some kids build cars for has a similar rule- and when a car fails the check in because one wheel is up in the air a smidgen, they bend the wheel & axle down to fix the kids car! I pointed out that now the axle is no longer parallel, so why can't I just start with a drill that matches their fix- The answer was- No- You would be doing it on purpose and that is an advantage-.....I said Yes I totally agree and I might add that what you do when you "fix" a car is a total disadvantage if you bothered to look up the times of all the cars you fixed and compare to the others

I have had some cars have a wheel lift after days of being perfect. My quick fix this year was to use a pin vice and open both front axle holes up to 0.230 metric, and the STD BSA axle will be very loose. Then I use dental tape to shim the high wheel down and shim the low wheel up and that has brought it back- and I have a fast fix if race day a bit more is needed.

The other dumb thing is the stop section is terrible and only a SS ( not allowed) axle can take it, so when they get ready to run the finals, they re-check in all cars and half of them are not 4 on the floor anymore- out comes the fat finger fix.

 

[Mojo Racing]

The other dumb thing is the stop section is terrible and only a SS ( not allowed) axle can take it, so when they get ready to run the finals, they re-check in all cars and half of them are not 4 on the floor anymore- out comes the fat finger fix.

Hmmmmm.... Seems they would fat finger fix the stop section

 

[ngyoung]

I think I would have gone with the 1 degree cant in my sons car. I kind of morally justify that as being within the range of human error,especially for a scout race.