Possible Mid America trip

[Thinkin'Bout Racin]

Ok guys, you have been extremely patient with my questions to this point! My son and I REALLY appreciate it.

Quick background ...my son crossed over this winter, so this is his last chance to do the Scout racing. We have always been mid pack until last year where we did a better with a second in the pack. He was VERY excited when that happened. He raced at districts and finished ok, not top five but close. So this year, we tried our first tungsten car. We made improvements again, but not quite enough. I stumbled on this site two days before his pack race and discovered just how wrong we had been approaching things. Car ran ok , but had some issues from a compound bend in the steering axle. (my Bad!!!! ) The look on his face when he won several races in his pack was fantastic. He was a humble winner, but obviously VERY happy. He even shared what work we had done to help make his car faster. We are building several cars for the district race with different amounts of steer and W/B so we can learn. Mom even is building a "pink" car to race in the open. We have not run any of the new builds yet, but I am confident that we are headed the right direction because of all the help we received here!

Fast forward to now ...we are considering a trip to Mid - America. Since this would be his last opportunity, I would want it to be a positive experience. I believe that in order to be competitive we will need to get a set of wheels and axles from John.

Sorry, finally to the questions ....We are currently using a 2.5 gram wheel with BSA axles ( axles finished about 0.0876"). With the significant weight savings of the Mid America wheel combined with the much better axle (less hub to axle clearance/slop) would we need or should we change the set up? Less steer or more steer because of the slightly lighter weight on the DFW?

Also, because most of you have been down this path previously, how much gain is to be had (apples to apples comparison assuming equal /proper set up and prep of the wheels and axles) would be expected with a switch to the lighter wheels and a set of 92 or 93 axles. Is 0.02xx - 0.03xx a reasonable expectation to gain in speed?

I am just trying to wrap my head around this as if we decide to go, I will need to get the wheels/axles ordered.

Thanks in advance for your patience for the long post.

 

[B_Regal Racing]

Expect to see more like a .07 to .08 gain. Its like comparing Box Stock to Street Pro.

You want these items:
http://www.derbydad4hire.com/The-Dynasty-MID-AMERICA-DERBY-Xtreme-Style-set-of-4-wheels-W-NMA.htm
http://www.derbydad4hire.com/The-Dynasty-93TX-Pro-Axle-with-Point-A-93TX.htm

Order soon, maybe even call tomorrow. The shop may be down for a week in the coming week and you may not have that time to spare with the prep you will need to do. Make sure you say they are for mid-america.

 

[bracketracer]

First off, if you're able to go, definitely go! It's a fun weekend and there are lots of things to do in the area. Greg puts on a great show and there will be a ton of door prizes I'm sure.

Now, reality check for you. If you don't live in Omaha your son would be racing in the open scout class where he will likely be racing several of the pro's kids. It will be tough, even with quality parts so don't go in expecting to place high. Do the best you guys can and see how you do. Ask advice of the live pros and I'm sure any or all of them will give you tips on things to get you faster. Above all else, have fun!

Don't forget to build yourself a car to enter on the pro side!

 

[robo4881]

I think most run fenders and wheel covers also to be competitive. But they aren't required to have a good time! But it is nice if possible so you see how your times compare to others with equal parts.

 

[Thinkin'Bout Racin]

Expect to see more like a .07 to .08 gain. Its like comparing Box Stock to Street Pro.

You want these items:
http://www.derbydad4hire.com/The-Dynasty-MID-AMERICA-DERBY-Xtreme-Style-set-of-4-wheels-W-NMA.htm
http://www.derbydad4hire.com/The-Dynasty-93TX-Pro-Axle-with-Point-A-93TX.htm

Order soon, maybe even call tomorrow. The shop may be down for a week in the coming week and you may not have that time to spare with the prep you will need to do. Make sure you say they are for mid-america.

B_ Regal,

Thanks for the heads up about the shop ...yea, those are the wheels and axles I was considering. Thanks for the insight on the possible gain in speed. That seems like a LOT!. I am pretty conservative in my estimates, so I wouldn't plan on that much gain (however, it sure would be nice).

Any thoughts on the need to change the set-up?

Thanks again

 

[Thinkin'Bout Racin]

First off, if you're able to go, definitely go! It's a fun weekend and there are lots of things to do in the area. Greg puts on a great show and there will be a ton of door prizes I'm sure.

Now, reality check for you. If you don't live in Omaha your son would be racing in the open scout class where he will likely be racing several of the pro's kids. It will be tough, even with quality parts so don't go in expecting to place high. Do the best you guys can and see how you do. Ask advice of the live pros and I'm sure any or all of them will give you tips on things to get you faster. Above all else, have fun!

Don't forget to build yourself a car to enter on the pro side!

Bracket,

I am under no delusion that we would be anywhere near the top. I have looked at the times from previous years along with what racers are likely to be returning. The times are intimidating to say the least. I just would not want to show up and end up near the bottom. I want the opportunity to show my son that if you put forth the effort, it can pay dividends. Along with that, I feel that this could be a good opportunity to teach him that we still have a lot to learn and that the others that finish above us have put in more time and are ahead of us on the learning curve. I hope this makes sense ...trying to find the right balance of having some success along with teaching a solid work ethic. I would be very happy with a mid-pack finish.

It would be a 5 + hour drive for us, so as of now, I have not committed to going, but it is still a possibility. I know we need to make a decision soon because of the logistics of getting everything together including the wheels & axles. I also realize that we have a LOT to learn yet!

Any thoughts on the need to change the tune with the different wheels and axles?

Thanks!

 

[Thinkin'Bout Racin]

I think most run fenders and wheel covers also to be competitive. But they aren't required to have a good time! But it is nice if possible so you see how your times compare to others with equal parts.

I have seen wheel covers mentioned several times connected to the Mid-Americas. I know nothing ...well maybe less than nothing about wheel covers. So, I am looking for any advice on the style and benefits that they offer.

Ok, I have looked and I see that there are several styles. Some that attach to the wheel and some that attach to the body. What is recommended by the people here? Just as important as to which ones, I would like to know the why of each version.

I hate to add weight to the wheel and increase its mass, but maybe the aero benefit is more of a factor? On the other hand, how do you attach something to the side of the body when the wheels are canted 3* in back and up to 10* in the front and have it not rub on the inside of the hubs????

 

[bracketracer]

The air shield/air dam/air widget-type things attach to the body not the wheel so they don't change the mass of the wheel at all. As far as mounting goes, you would need to either cant the side of the body or cut/sand the angle into the shield if it's the type that has standoffs. I try to match the angle first then continue to remove material from the standoffs to make the shield flush with the tread edge when the wheel is gapped right and has weight on it.
If you do go, I can recommend the Hampton Inn, it's very close to the venue and the breakfast is pretty good!

Forgot to add- when I install the shields, I use a gage pin that fits the axle hole and a 3/4" long piece of 3/8" round plastic drilled to fit the gage pin. Pin goes in the axle hole, shield goes on the plastic rod, put CA glue on the shield, slide the plastic rod down the pin and hold it tight to the body for a few seconds while the glue sets up. Keeps everything centered that way!

 

[B_Regal Racing]

Forgot to add- when I install the shields, I use a gage pin that fits the axle hole and a 3/4" long piece of 3/8" round plastic drilled to fit the gage pin. Pin goes in the axle hole, shield goes on the plastic rod, put CA glue on the shield, slide the plastic rod down the pin and hold it tight to the body for a few seconds while the glue sets up. Keeps everything centered that way!

I do the same except I install my washer on the shield first. This allow me to work with the washer and the shield without fumbling with the whole car. Not sure if its really any easier; its just what I would do.

Thanks for the heads up about the shop ...yea, those are the wheels and axles I was considering. Thanks for the insight on the possible gain in speed. That seems like a LOT!. I am pretty conservative in my estimates, so I wouldn't plan on that much gain (however, it sure would be nice).

Any thoughts on the need to change the set-up?

Thanks again

If you are already set up for an aluminum track, you're fine. You probably could back out some steer if you put in extra because of local Scout racing. I'm more of a 5" to 6" guy in a local Scout race, but at MA, I would think most cars will run fairly straight. If you have my prep instructions, follow them s - l - o - w - l - y ... and check everything. Clean your wheels before you race and make sure your hubs, wheel edges, and washers are highly polished. I get the feeling that people spend a ton of time on the bores and fly by the remainder of the wheel prep.

Like BracketRacer said, the competition at the top will be fierce, but I absolutely know for sure with those parts, and if you take your time, you will not be last either. When it comes to fun, this is the event.

And tell the Iceman, B_Regal says "hi." He thinks he can build a car, but we know better <wink> <wink>.