scouts pinewood derby

[Obsessedderbydad]

Ive been on the forum and have been given a lot of great advise. I have bought products from john, have the DVD and read up on a lot. I know I'm going to go either 5/8".or 1/4".thick ladder design with about 3/4" COG. I think it's COG. I'm doing a rail runner but I can't do the 1/8" off the fdw side because of rules. My questionsion is drift. 4" over 6' on a 35' track? Also do I balance the cube weights or put more on the dfw side? I will be running with fenders. Thanks for help/ advise. I know basic wheel prep and basic design will win, but there's a tough SOB @ districts I want to beat that has won 2 years in a row.

 

[Rocket car]

I usually have a 5/8 com (center of mass) with 1 to 2 cubes to the FDW side. You might be racing one!!! Use the locator to see.

 

[sondo007]

I'm sure a lot of guys are going to chime on this, but I will throw this out there to start
1) Yes! On the 5/8".or 1/4".thick ladder design with about 3/4" COG (Center Of Gravity)
2)Railing Running always good idea. Are you allowed to have 1 raised wheel? that is another factor in speed
3) 4" over 6' feet is a good start. Something I just discovered is it depends on how much weight your putting behind the rear axle. 2.1 or higher needs more steer. if it 2.0 or less, then less steer 3" over 6'.
4) The weight behind the axle should be even, however the weight infront of the axle should be shifted more to the DFW. Again this depends on how much weight your putting in the rear. You don't want a wheel popping up.
5) Fenders are must if your going to hit below 2.98, at least in this league it's been proven that they do have speed advantage
6) When all else fails, find the dad and kid before the race and throw some Holy Water on them. Because if they beat you this year either they are reading the same forum or its the DEVILS works.

 

[DEW36]

I usually have a 5/8 com (center of mass) with 1 to 2 cubes to the FDW side. I see your in Ohio (maybe) there are a lot of pros in that area. You might be racing one!!! Use the locator to see. There is another league out of Ohio. That won't show up on the locator though.

+1

 

[bracketracer]

Ive been on the forum and have been given a lot of great advise. I have bought products from john, have the DVD and read up on a lot. I know I'm going to go either 5/8".or 1/4".thick ladder design with about 3/4" COG. I think it's COG. I'm doing a rail runner but I can't do the 1/8" off the fdw side because of rules. My questionsion is drift. 4" over 6' on a 35' track? Also do I balance the cube weights or put more on the dfw side? I will be running with fenders. Thanks for help/ advise. I know basic wheel prep and basic design will win, but there's a tough SOB @ districts I want to beat that has won 2 years in a row.

If you can't take any off on the front, can you add to the rear width? You're just trying to ensure the rears don't rub the rail.

Do you know if the track will be wood or aluminum? Center guide or edge guide? Does it have a hill and a transition or is it a constant radius hill?

Three small cheap scales can measure your COG accurately as well as show how well your car is balanced side to side, but a good job on the prep will beat an average prep on a well balanced car every time!

If you're able to use lightened wheels and/or oil be sure to do so! Otherwise, DD4H's graphite ROCKS!

 

[Rocket car]

Ive been on the forum and have been given a lot of great advise. I have bought products from john, have the DVD and read up on a lot. I know I'm going to go either 5/8".or 1/4".thick ladder design with about 3/4" COG. I think it's COG. I'm doing a rail runner but I can't do the 1/8" off the fdw side because of rules. My questionsion is drift. 4" over 6' on a 35' track? Also do I balance the cube weights or put more on the dfw side? I will be running with fenders. Thanks for help/ advise. I know basic wheel prep and basic design will win, but there's a tough SOB @ districts I want to beat that has won 2 years in a row.

The best and easiest way to win is to have DD4H make you a car.

 

[GravityX]

Ive been on the forum and have been given a lot of great advise. I have bought products from john, have the DVD and read up on a lot. I know I'm going to go either 5/8".or 1/4".thick ladder design with about 3/4" COG. I think it's COG. I'm doing a rail runner but I can't do the 1/8" off the fdw side because of rules. My questionsion is drift. 4" over 6' on a 35' track? Also do I balance the cube weights or put more on the dfw side? I will be running with fenders. Thanks for help/ advise. I know basic wheel prep and basic design will win, but there's a tough SOB @ districts I want to beat that has won 2 years in a row.

The best and easiest way to win is to have DD4H make you a car.

That may be true Brian, but if Obsessedderbydad (ODD) is like me, I've got to have some skin in the game to make it feel like my own.

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

Ok. Rules state 3 wheels are ok. Minimum distance between tires is 1 3/4". I wanna build the car with my son so he can learn and maybe love it as much as me. Aluminum 4 lane, 35' best track with middle rail. Anything else you need to know.

 

[Kinser Racing]

I've never done a ladder style car and to be honest I don't know if I'd spend the the time to do it on a scout car. There are other areas that you could spend your time on. IMHO /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif

 

[bracketracer]

I've never done a ladder style car and to be honest I don't know if I'd spend the the time to do it on a scout car. There are other areas that you could spend your time on. IMHO /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif

Amen! Don't out-trick yourself! If you have to use the stuff in the box, then a good prep job on a wedge and careful alignment will win the day.

 

[OPARENNEN]

If you cant in the DFW, and cant out the two rear wheels, you don't need to worry about the body shape being even.

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

I can't shorten the DFW but I can add to the rear. Not much because I believe from wheel to wheel needs to be 2 3/4" of less. Would you just use a small section of wood like a washer to add to the rear width? We can't use washers /images/boards/smilies/frown.gif

 

[Rocket car]

I can't shorten the DFW but I can add to the rear. Not much because I believe from wheel to wheel needs to be 2 3/4" of less. Would you just use a small section of wood like a washer to add to the rear width? We can't use washers /images/boards/smilies/frown.gif

Usually the rules state that you can be no wider than 2 3/4. Not less. That would be odd. Never add width it slows you down.

 

[Crash Enburn]

I can't shorten the DFW but I can add to the rear. Not much because I believe from wheel to wheel needs to be 2 3/4" of less. Would you just use a small section of wood like a washer to add to the rear width? We can't use washers /images/boards/smilies/frown.gif

I use popsicle (craft) sticks on the back of my cars. They make the back end 1/8" wider, and when the wheels are pushed against the body, they are inside of the 2 3/4" max width.

You can see the steps in the car here (the fronts are inset 1/16" each):

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

I can't shorten the DFW but I can add to the rear. Not much because I believe from wheel to wheel needs to be 2 3/4" of less. Would you just use a small section of wood like a washer to add to the rear width? We can't use washers /images/boards/smilies/frown.gif

Usually the rules state that you can be no wider than 2 3/4. Not less. That would be odd. Never add width it slows you down.

Ya our rules are weird. IMO. They are strict but vague. The body can't be less than 1 3/4" basically is stating that the body can't be cut any thinner. The 2 3/4" width is so people dont make their design so wide it would hit another car on the track. I wish I could add some input or have john talk to the district about what the rules should be like.

Can someone explain to me why making the rear wider would slow the car down?? I understand it would add a little more weight, but weight in the rear wouldn't be that big of a deal. Any other explanation?

 

[quadad]

I think you are making it too complicated. I would take 1/16" off the front and not touch the back. Your rules, if as stated above, spec the minimum distance between the tires, not the width of the car (the better way to spec this though it's still lame). The FDW is always a little less tight to the body than the rears and it can relax out to their spec. Do you have to use slots ? If so, can you re-prep them ? Do you have access to a test track ?

 

[zeebzob]

The best and easiest way to win is to have DD4H make you a car.

[/QUOTE]

I gotta say, I'm kinda tired of all these non-builders that are starting to infiltrate this hobby. How much fun can winning actually be if you didn't do any of it yourself? The big problem with scouts has always been the father that builds the car instead of the kid, do we no longer even want the father involved?

 

[bracketracer]

Ok. Rules state 3 wheels are ok. Minimum distance between tires is 1 3/4". I wanna build the car with my son so he can learn and maybe love it as much as me. Aluminum 4 lane, 35' best track with middle rail. Anything else you need to know.

The stock BSA block is 1 3/4", but the wheels have a hub that sticks out about another .050" on each side, so you can remove .050-.060" on the DFW side and still be fine. No reason to widen the rears.

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

The best and easiest way to win is to have DD4H make you a car.

I gotta say, I'm kinda tired of all these non-builders that are starting to infiltrate this hobby. How much fun can winning actually be if you didn't do any of it yourself? The big problem with scouts has always been the father that builds the car instead of the kid, do we no longer even want the father involved?
[/QUOTE]

I think you missed my comment in another post about scout cars. My son is 8, very immature, childish, short attention span 8 year old. My goal is to every year get him more and more involved in making the car. To most people, building a scout car is supposed to be done by the scout and not the dad. I agree for the most part, but as a 7 year old Tiger my son was not touching a saw or any power tools. As he progresses in scouts, matures and ages he'll get more involved. This year all I'm doing is cutting and helping with wheel prep, he's doing the rest. Next year all I'll do is cut. The year after that it's all his. No father out there is going to say here's a block of wood, some nails and tires, build a car son and I'll watch. Just doesn't happen. Everyone wants the best for their kids and watching my son win his first trophy was so fulfilling that I believe that's why he wants to be more involved this year. He see's the reward for the work done. Now, had I just let him do everything he would of lost miserably and hated the hobby and never want to do it again.

I agree that non-builders should stay out of this hobby. I get more amp'd about testing and building and trying new things than actually racing. Yes I'm very new to this hobby and have much to learn and hope to one day make it to see all you guys at a race. I will not have John make my sons scout car or tune it. Yes it would probably win for sure, but that wouldnt be our car and that teaches my son nothing. We'll do our best with what I can learn and use the skills (or lack there of) that we have to make the best car we can /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

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