Super Heating and Cooling Axles

[Obsessedderbydad]

So I've read, not going to say where because I've seen a lot of tension on here, that it's a bad idea to super heat axles then cool them off. The positives of this is it hardens the axles so you'll have less scratches. BUT I heard this can also warp/take away the straightness of the axles. Any truth to either of these pros?

 

[Kinser Racing]

The quality of stainless that DerbyDad4Hire uses, once polished won't be easily scratched with a piece of preped and oiled plastic with five ounces of wieght on it. I wouldn't waste my time on heating and cooling.

 

[txchemist]

When you start with the Stainless John uses, High chrome, but still magnetic, they polish finer than the Hubble telescope mirror. They are hard, they are very straight. The Samurai sword is just ready for a polish, not a heat treatment. The grain size is already optimum, similar to surgical stainless steel.

Now if you start with a high iron soft BSA nail, and you know how to put in the right amount of carbon and chrome, and you can control the temperature and the quench rate- knock yourself out. When you are done, toss it away and go get a good stainless steel axle.

Sorry for the rant. Of the many great speed hints you can pick up here, one of the best is- get some 92's and spend your time on other things.

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

I'm sorry, I should of stated this is for cub scouts pinewood derby. Rules state BSA wheels, axles and block. I'm sure the SS axles are better and faster, but I'm going to stay within the rules. Winning isn't winning if you have to go outside the rules to do it.

 

[Kinser Racing]

If you have Netflix, watch the nail episode of "How it's Made".

 

[E.T.Racing]

Don't bother with heat treating axles it is not needed. My sons rules are the same use bsa axles and wheels. All you need to do is grove the axle with a file and de-burr and taper the head then polish. as far a wheels go the wheels that you can get from John are the best you can get and they are BSA wheels tht have been trued buy a set that matches you rules. we did this with my sons car this year. With rage wheelsw BSA axles that my son polished Red Rocket polish on the wheels we had a 3 sec car on a 42ft best track running graphite. God Luck on your build.

 

[txchemist]

small point, if you mess up your axles and then go buy replacement axles in the BSA approved axle polishing kit is that cheating- well it is not a nail from the same company putting them in the BSA store kits, it comes from China and is way better than the US nail. Now all the Revell BSA apporoved kits contain the better axle from China and the way worse wheel off of Chinese molds. So it you want to win and are not good at filing flash or grooving, get the Chinese axle polishing kit. Now that will be OK, but you can get BSA official axles all free of defects, ready to polish for only a few bucks from John that beat the Chinese axles. By the time you do well enough to get to districts, you will be racing against aftermarket axles. Because it is common to have kids that do not even have access to a hand drill, our Pack just puts the same rules as the NPWDRL for SS. All can get aftermarket- few can groove their own. Is it fair to punish the kids from homes with no tools?
P.S. if you want to loose- buy any of those junk Revell car kits.

 

[Resophonic Racing]

I posted on Derby Talk one time that I believe we focus to much on the lore of pinewood derby instead of the simple things that can increase speed. At the scout level you are better off concentrating on the COG, Alignment, Axle and Bore Prep. If you can get those lined up you will be super competitive, if not win it all. I feel sorry for the guys who are concentrating on baking their kit blocks, putting the cars in humidifiers and working on a 15 point alignment procedure because they bent all of the axles. I now know where Down For Derby got the inspiration for that movie. If you have a cub scout the best investment you can make is the Silver Bullet, its just that simple.

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

Of course I don't want to lose, but at the same time I'm doing this with my son and teaching him how to follow the rules. If we lose we lose, but we did the best we could (scout moto : do your best). I'll buy tools to aid in making the car and tuning it and what not, but winning isnt everything. We've already won 1 st place in the pack with fishing weights, miter saw and a dremel. I may not be a pro, but to my son I am.

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

I posted on Derby Talk one time that I believe we focus to much on the lore of pinewood derby instead of the simple things that can increase speed. At the scout level you are better off concentrating on the COG, Alignment, Axle and Bore Prep. If you can get those lined up you will be super competitive, if not win it all. I feel sorry for the guys who are concentrating on baking their kit blocks, putting the cars in humidifiers and working on a 15 point alignment procedure because they bent all of the axles. I now know where Down For Derby got the inspiration for that movie. If you have a cub scout the best investment you can make is the Silver Bullet, its just that simple.

I actually just tried baking the block and the block went from 3.9 oz to 3.4 oz... So why shouldn't you bake the block?

 

[pony express]

Reweigh the block tomorrow and the next day. The block will regain most of it's weight.

 

[Kinser Racing]

Because once you sand it down to about 25 grams a gram won't matter.

I posted on Derby Talk one time that I believe we focus to much on the lore of pinewood derby instead of the simple things that can increase speed. At the scout level you are better off concentrating on the COG, Alignment, Axle and Bore Prep. If you can get those lined up you will be super competitive, if not win it all. I feel sorry for the guys who are concentrating on baking their kit blocks, putting the cars in humidifiers and working on a 15 point alignment procedure because they bent all of the axles. I now know where Down For Derby got the inspiration for that movie. If you have a cub scout the best investment you can make is the Silver Bullet, its just that simple.

I actually just tried baking the block and the block went from 3.9 oz to 3.4 oz... So why shouldn't you bake the block?

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

Been in the garage 4 days now. Same weight.

 

[Chief]

Baking your block wont hurt anything because you are using the block from the BSA kit. I takes out any water or moisture that is still in the pine block. If you do not seal the wood though it can re-absorb moisture. If you were using DD4H blocks then I would suggest not to bake the block, it can make it brittle and most scout tracks are the smoothest.

 

[Aaoracing]

When I first started building derby cars I too baked my blocks from the kits. I found that on some blocks the weight would decrease and would hold fairly consistent too. However, I also found that those blocks were more likely to crack after I cut them down to the thinner designs. I finally quit baking blocks after my best car broke in the run off area after a race on my test track. I now buy all my blocks from DD4H.

I posted on Derby Talk one time that I believe we focus to much on the lore of pinewood derby instead of the simple things that can increase speed. At the scout level you are better off concentrating on the COG, Alignment, Axle and Bore Prep. If you can get those lined up you will be super competitive, if not win it all. I feel sorry for the guys who are concentrating on baking their kit blocks, putting the cars in humidifiers and working on a 15 point alignment procedure because they bent all of the axles. I now know where Down For Derby got the inspiration for that movie. If you have a cub scout the best investment you can make is the Silver Bullet, its just that simple.

I actually just tried baking the block and the block went from 3.9 oz to 3.4 oz... So why shouldn't you bake the block?

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

Thanks for the info. Good to know

 

[Resophonic Racing]

Of course I don't want to lose, but at the same time I'm doing this with my son and teaching him how to follow the rules. If we lose we lose, but we did the best we could (scout moto : do your best). I'll buy tools to aid in making the car and tuning it and what not, but winning isnt everything. We've already won 1 st place in the pack with fishing weights, miter saw and a dremel. I may not be a pro, but to my son I am.

ODD,

My only point is there is so much bad information on the net about what it takes to make a fast competitive car with your scout. I have 6+ years in scouting at the Den Leader and Cub Master rank. I'm all for "Do Your Best". Each year my love for the pinewood derby is renewed when a new batch of Tiger Cubs participate in their first pinewood derby. Glad you and your son are having a great time building cars. We are here to help once you start testing.

PS. As far as the backing blocks, five tenths of an ounce on an un-shaped block is not going to make or break your car IMHO.

 

[Spirit Racing]

I have baked a few blocks early on when I first started Cub Scout PWD. The most I could ever get out of a block was 10 grams. But about 80 percent of the moisture would come back . Several times it came back after the car was painted and had my final weight in. As RESO says 2 or ever 10 grams is not going to make or break you. And as 5KIDS says its not the smoking gun!!!!!And Kinser is right , once you get your final body shape down small it really won't make any difference. There are many more important things things to put your efforts in to find more speed.........SPIRIT........

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

I don't disagree with any of you alas suggestions. This may not be the most important thing, but if it works and I can gain here or there why not try it. The cracking point is interesting and we'll see what happens. My point is, if you can gain a gram here or a gram there lost in weight so you can distribute the weight exactly where you want it, why not? Its just like saying why add fenders? Everything you do to the car matters whether it's losing a couple of grams or gaining .005 mph in speed, in the end it all adds up. And since my son is only 7 and I have a 3 month old, I'll be doing this for a while.

 

[DerbyDad4Hire]

How are you gaining anything baking it? It will still end up 5oz when you are done. I also baked a block when I first started. Kinda like the treadmill thing IMHO. All it does also IMHO is ruin the wood making it more brittle. Use the kit axles if you want. I think what the guys are saying here is that there is a lot of random information given out that does not give you any benefit. If you find that baking the block helps you then by all means use the secret to your advantage. That is where your own personal testing comes in.