Trying to choose my DD4H wheels and axles?
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It says you have to use them, it didnt say what you have to use them for. I could use them for weight not axles. I would still be with in the rules. I could mount the out of the box wheels and axles to the top of my Eliminator car and it would be with in the rules. The rules and kits are junk!!! I have said this before but here it goes again. Here's a fun project go buy 10 kits than measure the axles, wheels, block and so on. You will see HUGE differences in the kits, some good, some bad. If the product isn't consistent how can it be fair?
TedBull said:
In all honesty how many of you havent thought the same thing about me lately? I know I did of Kinser, and then JB's SS's. Sometimes we all need some humble pie and accept that some one has figure out sometimg that works for them. We can either call "cheater, cheater", or try and and figure out what works for you.
DerbyDad4Hire said:
Quicktimederby said:
I can vouch for this statement. Some blocks are warped, some are dead flat. Some wheels are drastically worse than others. If you only buy one kit for your scout and you don't have the skills to square it up, it's a crapshoot.
I was at our local scout shop last week. I picked up two car kits. A man standing there asked "Buying a spare in case he messes one up, eh? Good idea!" I said "No, I have two boys". Then I turned to the girl behind the counter and told her I needed twelve sets of wheels. The dude's jaw hit the floor. He asked why I needed a dozen sets of wheels when a set comes with each kit. I told him that if I go through fourteen sets I'm bound to find three good ones. And I did. Three wheels with .0005" runout and small bores that I can polish. The rest of the lot varied from .001 to .009 TIR. More practice wheels for the lathe! One block I got has tight grain and was dead flat on the surface plate, the other was warped about .050" and had to be flattened before I recut the axle slots.
One of the blocks we got last year the axle slot was not square!
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Three wheels with .0005" runout and small bores that I can polish. The rest of the lot varied from .001 to .009 TIR.
If anyone in my area new what that meant: I'd be screwed! Cause I don't full know what that means
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It says you have to use them, it didnt say what you have to use them for.
Our rules state: Must use axle slots as intened. I've often considered making a protest car with the axle slots on the tops of the car as "air drags." Isn't that what they're intended for?
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Three wheels with .0005" runout and small bores that I can polish. The rest of the lot varied from .001 to .009 TIR.
If anyone in my area new what that meant: I'd be screwed! Cause I don't full know what that means
Quote:
It says you have to use them, it didnt say what you have to use them for.
Our rules state: Must use axle slots as intened. I've often considered making a protest car with the axle slots on the tops of the car as "air drags." Isn't that what they're intended for?
IAE Racing said:One of the blocks we got last year the axle slot was not square!
Quote:
Three wheels with .0005" runout and small bores that I can polish. The rest of the lot varied from .001 to .009 TIR.
If anyone in my area new what that meant: I'd be screwed! Cause I don't full know what that means
Quote:
It says you have to use them, it didnt say what you have to use them for.
Our rules state: Must use axle slots as intened. I've often considered making a protest car with the axle slots on the tops of the car as "air drags." Isn't that what they're intended for?
TIR= Total Indicated Runout. It tells you how close to perfectly round the wheel spins.
Your rules? I thought we were talking about the rules out of the box?
IAE Racing said:It says you have to use them, it didnt say what you have to use them for.
Our rules state: Must use axle slots as intened. I've often considered making a protest car with the axle slots on the tops of the car as "air drags." Isn't that what they're intended for?
Hey, I have a dozen grandsons, some approaching Cub age, and some long gone. And they live all over the country. long ago, I went to a Council Special Invite Finals in Arizona. I immediatly recognized at least a dozen (it was a bery big event) from J***KS, Derby Works, and several other like internet places, especially Max Vel in AZ. These cars were the winners with sub 3 times. That was all it took. I listened to John and others, made my own rules which I felt comfortable with and which would pass inspection, and from that point on my grandsons won year after year. One time, I posted exactly how I help my grandsons how to prepare wheels and axles on this web forum. I got really burned by several responses, although John and others chipped in in my defense. I even wrote a long response to one of those who wrote a very negative response. After I read it, I decided not to post it, but instead worked it over and sent it to National Scout headquarters. I got a response: Thank you for your input. That's it. If you search this forum from long ago, you can find it. The thing that got every one upset, is how I used oil sparingly then coated the outer edges of the wheels with graphite. The contentious point was whether this was "dry lub". My conscious said yes, many other didn't agree at all. But our times vs. those who were second place was actually in the 1000ths in every race in two different councils in AZ. That's serious racing down there. Here in Colorado, for whatever reason, Derby Fever is fairly low. However a year ago in one of the Council finals, we were second place. Who won? SoGone's (one of our premier competitors at PWDRL) son.
- Nov 24, 2011
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Quicktimederby said:
That's funny! I know I've also felt the same way about others.
It doesn't say in the kit what you need to use the parts for. It just says they must be used. I usually use them in the big round file we use for things that we no longer need. They should just let the kids and dads build fast cars, not try to drag everyone down to the same level. It doesn't work that way in the world I live in. I had a kids dad come over once and ask me to use a drill bit so he could weight his kids car. I tried to start to tell him how to do it and he just said "I'll just do it this way". I said "OK".
If you want to talk about scout ethics, let's start at the scout shop. You could walk out of there with $200 worth of stuff to build a "fast car" a get your butt whooped by someone that knows what their doing. You buy the pro this or that tool the axle straightening tool (why don't you just put in decent nails that you know I can use?) and the how to build a car book (junk!). The BSA knows this stuff is junk but they'll sell it to you!!! Where's the ethics in that?
They tell our boys to be thrifty but sell a required shirt for $40+! Is that ethical??? Why can everyone else sell a shirt of the same quality for under $20 and still make money???
I was in the scout shop last year and they had walking sticks for sale. They were shovel handles, for only $39.99. I just went and bought a full on shovel for my wife for $15 at Lowes and the handle was included. I think that's a joke and a ripoff. Why don't all of these honorable scout leaders (not the volunteers) have an issue with the ethics of this. I'll tell you why! $$$ I think the director of our counsel gets paid over a 100k a year and I don't know that he really does much. I called him at one time with some concerns when my boys were going to the 100 anniversary jamboree, he never called back. I emailed him, he never emailed back. To be honest I'm not surprised. That's the end of my scout rant. Sorry!
This topic has been on my mind lately because it won't be long before my son's pack race will be here. This will be our second year in the Scout race. We took third overall last year with me having very little knowledge of PWD. This year I have a little more knowledge and suspect that we may do better than 3rd. It would not surprise me if our car gets tore down after the race and heavily scrutinized. I do not want my son to experience the thrill of victory and have it retracted by someones interpretation of the rules.
Here is my two cents on the Scout rules.
Anything sold on the BSA website is fair game. The purpose, or given intention of any tool that they sell can be replaced by a better tool or means to do the intended job. For example, they sell a wheel shaver to cut the outside of the wheels. The intention is to make the wheels round. In my opinion, a better tool such as a lathe should be able to used as well. The BSA website sells an axle hole drill fixture. The intent is to have axle holes that will give better alignment than the slots. Drilling with the Silver Bullet should be allowed.
Did you guys know that they sell Krytox oil an the BSA site for an inflated price?
There are other tools and products on the BSA website that fit perfectly in supporting my case.
Take a look for yourself.
Here is my two cents on the Scout rules.
Anything sold on the BSA website is fair game. The purpose, or given intention of any tool that they sell can be replaced by a better tool or means to do the intended job. For example, they sell a wheel shaver to cut the outside of the wheels. The intention is to make the wheels round. In my opinion, a better tool such as a lathe should be able to used as well. The BSA website sells an axle hole drill fixture. The intent is to have axle holes that will give better alignment than the slots. Drilling with the Silver Bullet should be allowed.
Did you guys know that they sell Krytox oil an the BSA site for an inflated price?
There are other tools and products on the BSA website that fit perfectly in supporting my case.
Take a look for yourself.
No stirring the pot. A lot of us have been very frustrated by the lack of good rule. The more you race and see how good rules create a good fair environment the out of the box rules will start to drive you crazy!
G
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DerbyDad4Hire said:
I like this quote. It can be interpreted two different ways.
The winner DID "cheat" and that is why he won. OR
The winner will be accused of cheating regardless of if he did or did not "cheat".
To most people this is a brief flash in the pan.
It is a quick piece of entertainment and time to bond with the kid. I think that this could include any of a number of activities. Even ordering things off the internet and planning the look etc.
Building the excitement with the child's understanding and input on the car. etc.
This is a kids game that we take seriously. The main part is to have fun with the kid.
Some of these kids do not want to stay put long enough to lean the "art of sanding". LOL
Does this mean we should work on the car ourselves when we can focus properly?
I like the fact that this forums rules allow for certain things that are restricted in other races.
I have always gotten the feeling that if I sent in a whacky design to John that was a "borderline rules case", he would run it down the track just out of personal curiosity and the people here would applaud him for it.
G
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I predict a time in the not too distant future when the father and son will pick out a car design from a list of 3D drawings. They will pour over the drawing making minor adjustments before sending the file to the 3D printer on their desk. Perhaps they will email the drawing to the local "copy" shop instead to have it CNCed. I think it is great to get the child involved in the process as much as possible.
However the idea of a child being in a half assed workshop with his father that knows little about how to use tools seems a bit dangerous. (I wonder how many trips to the ER are a result of PWD each year. It would be an interesting stat.)
So instead the father will often send the child away for saftey as well as other reasons. The very point of the PWD is for these two to be spending time together! LOL
When I was a kid a fellow cub scout (John) had little parental guidance. I don't know if he even had a car when he showed up for the race, but by race time, with some help, John had a wood block on wheels with a Bic lighter taped to the hood. He finished 4th in the pack. If he finished first, would he really have "won" the derby?
It is the kid that spends the most quality time with his dad that wins.
My brother had finished first that race and I finished second because my brother had the fore thought to order a book out of the back of Boys Life on how to win the PWD.
As a result we were accused of cheating for reading the book!
Sorry for getting all serious.
However the idea of a child being in a half assed workshop with his father that knows little about how to use tools seems a bit dangerous. (I wonder how many trips to the ER are a result of PWD each year. It would be an interesting stat.)
So instead the father will often send the child away for saftey as well as other reasons. The very point of the PWD is for these two to be spending time together! LOL
When I was a kid a fellow cub scout (John) had little parental guidance. I don't know if he even had a car when he showed up for the race, but by race time, with some help, John had a wood block on wheels with a Bic lighter taped to the hood. He finished 4th in the pack. If he finished first, would he really have "won" the derby?
It is the kid that spends the most quality time with his dad that wins.
My brother had finished first that race and I finished second because my brother had the fore thought to order a book out of the back of Boys Life on how to win the PWD.
As a result we were accused of cheating for reading the book!
Sorry for getting all serious.
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