Using a drill press for axle holes?

[MOSAV]

I bought a 10" drill press to start test drilling axles holes. I'm using a #43 drill bit, but when measuring with digital calipers it seems between an 43 and 44.
The questions is... Is my drill press lacking in propped tolerance because it seems to Waller out the holes too much making them too lose for the axles?

The drill press is a craftsman. I'm drilling on medium speed about 1,500 rpms. I'm drilling the full depth of the axle.

If I use the drill bit in a hand drill the axle fits snug, I just doesnt have the propper angle.

I have read on here that many only predrill then finish by hand. Is that what I should be doing?

Please Help,
Thanks.

 

[GravityX]

Drill press may have too much runout at the chuck. Also, are you using carbide bits to drill out the hole? The carbide bit has less of a tendency to wander when catching the grain in the wood. I think you will find that most people here will be using the #43 bit then following up with a reamer that is about .0005" smaller that the axle, assuming that you are using the Dynasty 92x axle.

 

[MOSAV]

I don't believe the bit is carbide. The axles were just some cheap ones I polished from a hobby lobby.
Thanks,

 

[DerbyDad4Hire]

The HSS steel bits do flex bad. Chuck the bit as far up as you can and still get the depth you want. Your workpiece can also be vibrating and moving ever so slightly.

 

[Rocket car]

Your workpiece can also be vibrating and moving ever so slightly.

My wife reminds of this all the time!!!!

 

[sondo007]

Your workpiece can also be vibrating and moving ever so slightly.

My wife reminds of this all the time!!!!

OH NO YOU DIDN'T JUST SAY THAT!!!

YES!!! YES!!! YOU DID JUST SAY THAT,

OMG, I'm FALLING OFF THE COUCH. My wife is now giving me a dirty look of disapproval. I don't care that is funny.

 

[IAE Racing]

I predict bracket will have a good answer

 

[Papa V Racing]

Oh Sondo ----

Hope you didn't bruse yourself falling out of the chair ......

Papa V

 

[sondo007]

Oh Sondo ----

Hope you didn't bruse yourself falling out of the chair ......

Papa V

Don't worry PapaV, I got plenty of padding to cushion the fall

 

[bracketracer]

I bought a 10" drill press to start test drilling axles holes. I'm using a #43 drill bit, but when measuring with digital calipers it seems between an 43 and 44. The questions is... Is my drill press lacking in propped tolerance because it seems to Waller out the holes too much making them too lose for the axles? The drill press is a craftsman. I'm drilling on medium speed about 1,500 rpms. I'm drilling the full depth of the axle. If I use the drill bit in a hand drill the axle fits snug, I just doesnt have the propper angle. I have read on here that many only predrill then finish by hand. Is that what I should be doing? Please Help, Thanks.

If they're stock size axles, I'd try a #44 bit in your drill press. The #43 bit is for .092 axles.

A carbide bit would be better, but they are brittle so be careful with them. You can also buy drill bits specifically made for shallow holes. The flutes aren't as long as a jobber bit so you can chuck it up even closer to the end. They're still more than long enough for an axle.

 

[Kinser Racing]

Can we please keep this place rated G? There are kids that come on here with their dads. Thank you!

 

[LightninBoy]

I bought a 10" drill press to start test drilling axles holes. I'm using a #43 drill bit, but when measuring with digital calipers it seems between an 43 and 44. The questions is... Is my drill press lacking in propped tolerance because it seems to Waller out the holes too much making them too lose for the axles? The drill press is a craftsman. I'm drilling on medium speed about 1,500 rpms. I'm drilling the full depth of the axle. If I use the drill bit in a hand drill the axle fits snug, I just doesnt have the propper angle. I have read on here that many only predrill then finish by hand. Is that what I should be doing? Please Help, Thanks.

Double entendre's aside for a minute ...

You probably should check the runout on the drill press.

http://www.rvplane.com/pdf/drill_press_tune-up.pdf

Generally, total runout of up to .005 is considered ok for woodworking. I'll let more experienced members chime in on the acceptable runout for PWD.

I measured the runout on my drill press (cheap 10" Skil model) recently and it was .009, which is high. So I removed the chuck and cleaned the spindle and the chuck. While I had the chuck off I measured the spindle runout at ~.0025. After putting the chuck back on my runout was around .006. I've read that the chuck's on these low end drills are junk - but I'm going to try to live with .006.

 

[bracketracer]

I predict bracket will have a good answer

LOL! It'd be the first time I did!

 

[OPARENNEN]

To be sure drill is set up right, you need a Silver Bullet or Block.
Put the Canting Pin in the chuck, and using the bullet, be sure that pin is 100% accurate from all angles.
Even once drill is set up right and using the correct bit, you still need the Bullet and it's canting pin to get perfectly accurate holes.

 

[chromegsx]

I measured the runout on my drill press (cheap 10" Skil model) recently and it was .009, which is high. So I removed the chuck and cleaned the spindle and the chuck. While I had the chuck off I measured the spindle runout at ~.0025. After putting the chuck back on my runout was around .006. I've read that the chuck's on these low end drills are junk - but I'm going to try to live with .006.

You don't have to live with it. It can be adjusted to a point. One is to locate the chuck on the spindle at different places, just be sure to mark both the chuck and spindle to know where you started. Another is to file off the a jaw or two in the chuck to bring the concentricity closer. Once I got to .001-.0015 I started chasing my tail in circles though. which is when I started moving the chuck on the spindle. to get the last bit that I could. Ended up at .00025ish with one pin guage in the chuck, but with another it might be .00075. Don't that point i called it good enough for our local race.

 

[LightninBoy]

I measured the runout on my drill press (cheap 10" Skil model) recently and it was .009, which is high. So I removed the chuck and cleaned the spindle and the chuck. While I had the chuck off I measured the spindle runout at ~.0025. After putting the chuck back on my runout was around .006. I've read that the chuck's on these low end drills are junk - but I'm going to try to live with .006.

You don't have to live with it. It can be adjusted to a point. One is to locate the chuck on the spindle at different places, just be sure to mark both the chuck and spindle to know where you started. Another is to file off the a jaw or two in the chuck to bring the concentricity closer. Once I got to .001-.0015 I started chasing my tail in circles though. which is when I started moving the chuck on the spindle. to get the last bit that I could. Ended up at .00025ish with one pin guage in the chuck, but with another it might be .00075. Don't that point i called it good enough for our local race.

Sweet Jesus there goes another evening down the PWD time black hole. I don't know whether to bless you or curse you chromegsx. /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif

Seriously, those sound like a lot better ways to tackle the runout problem than the "knock it into line with a hammer" that is typically suggested. When you went through this process - what was your initial runout? Did you ever measure spindle runout or just focus on the chuck runout?

 

[chromegsx]

Sounds like a blessing but you'll be cursing till your done trying to chase it down to zero. /images/boards/smilies/wink.gif I don't remember my initial...maybe like .003, but should be able.to get yours much better. I never thought of trying the hammer. Maybe I could have saved some hair pulling when I was chasing my tail with that method.

My spindle was less than .00025. So i focused on the chuck. The one I had I couldn't get any better than .001. When I tried to get it better I made it worse and could never get back to .001. My dad got me a couple others to try. He's the machinist that told me about filing the jaws... And one of those was similar design and all I had to do was put it on the spindle about a hundred times till I was satisfied. I have some other chucks of better quality yet to try though.

There is a catch though. When filing jaws listen to the numbers on the dial. You could be adjusting what side you think is correct, but when you put it back together it's worse. I fought this for a while insisting I knew which side to file only to make it worse each time. Make sure things are clean when assembling when you get it down to something more respectable. And chances are you will make your chuck centered very close to the jaws, but vertically lower on the pin it might be more extreme than what you really want. So using a wheel mandrel you might be getting a fair bit of runout where the wheel is but up at the jaws it's very good. I don't use a mandrel because of that and other reasons. I just use pin gauges to process my wheels. Probably not good enough to compete with the big boys, but works very effective for local races.

With .006, this should help you tremendously. Start with rotating on spindle rotate say 30-45 deg at a time to see if it gets any better. Once you find the best spot mark it then go at the jaws.

 

[LightninBoy]

I hate you chromegsx. ;-)

So one ruined chuck, one new chuck, and god knows how many hours later I am down to ~.001 or less runout.

Couple things I learned along the way (this will probably be in the "well ... duh" category for most, but maybe it will help another newbie):

* Unless you know what the hell you are doing, or you are willing to chuck the chuck, do not file the jaws. Just like chromegsx warned, I thought I was filing down the right jaw but I just kept making things worse. It got to the point where I could literally see space between the pin gauge I was chucking and one of the jaws. By this time I had resolved to buy a new chuck anyways, so I kept working at it - and kept making it worse.
* Chucking technique is everything - at least with these cheap chucks. Maybe the "super chucks" are more consistent, but before I learned the best way, I could chuck the same pin gauge at the same position and the runout could vary between .0005 (nil) and .005 each time. This was true even with the new chuck. Here's what I have to do to get 0 - .0015 runout:

1. Chuck the bit/pin gauge. Slowly hand tighten as much as you can.
2. Check the runout - if more than .0015 then remove the bit/pin gauge and repeat step 1.
3. Using the key, tighten the chuck by making tiny turns in each key hole. By tiny I mean maybe 15 - 20 degree turns. Do this in each key hole and go around at least 2 times (6 total turns). If you can't make it around twice before it gets too tight to turn then you probably were turning the key too much.
4. Check the runout. It should be .0015 or less. If not, remove the bit/ping gauge and start over at step 1.

At least this is what I have to do to get ~.001 runout. If I follow this process I can usually chuck the bit with ~.001 or less runout the first or second time. Keep in mind this was on a brand new (budget) chuck. I wonder is this chuck faulty or is this pretty typical for budget chucks?

In all seriousness, thanks chromegsx!

 

[chromegsx]

I hate you chromegsx. ;-)

LOL...Feel the love in the air.

At least this is what I have to do to get ~.001 runout. If I follow this process I can usually chuck the bit with ~.001 or less runout the first or second time. Keep in mind this was on a brand new (budget) chuck. I wonder is this chuck faulty or is this pretty typical for budget chucks?

In all seriousness, thanks chromegsx!

If your getting .001 on a average chuck and drill setup...I'd say that's about all you can ask, without getting lucky... .001 is a heck of lot better than .006 and you should find speed with that. I did read somewhere else that you can cut that in half somehow by rotating your work 180° or something like that. Never bothered to try it.

Your quite welcome, the least I can do is frustrate someone else with my pains of learning in return for everything that has been shared here and elsewhere for myself and everyone else to learn from.

 

[Kinser Racing]

LighninBoy. There are a lot of religious people on here. Would you be so kind as to be more careful of the things that you type? Thank you very much!