wheel, axle, and car tuning
- Thread starter yzboy250
- Start date
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yzboy250 said:
Drilled cant'd rear axle holes are faster, more reliable and easier to do then bending rear axles. We don't promote bending any axles but the DFW. I only commented on paint b.c when the hub touches the body, the paint will slow it down more than if you used some Sally Hansen Teflon tuff, or teflon washer if you're allowed.
- Nov 24, 2011
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Please do not bend rear axles!!! /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif
I know you're new here but I would like to dispel this very prevalent myth. You will see this all over this site. We race these cars professionally and just two weeks ago proved that bent axles are slower. A new racer came to race with bent axles. After the race it was suggested that the bent axles be replaced. They were replaced with straight UNPOLISHED axles. After the axles were replaced and graphited the cars was significantly faster. I will also note that before the replacement of the axles the car was first regraphited with DerbyDad4hire graphite and picked up speed before the bent axles were replaced with straight non canted axles. BAM! You are welcome to spread this info ALL over the interwebz!!!/images/boards/smilies/thumb.gif
P.S. As a pro with a great deal of experience tuning cars it would be possible but not probable to get the bent rear axle car faster, but not without a great deal of time tuning. As a novice with very little experience it is very unlikely to happen. /images/boards/smilies/wave.gif
I know you're new here but I would like to dispel this very prevalent myth. You will see this all over this site. We race these cars professionally and just two weeks ago proved that bent axles are slower. A new racer came to race with bent axles. After the race it was suggested that the bent axles be replaced. They were replaced with straight UNPOLISHED axles. After the axles were replaced and graphited the cars was significantly faster. I will also note that before the replacement of the axles the car was first regraphited with DerbyDad4hire graphite and picked up speed before the bent axles were replaced with straight non canted axles. BAM! You are welcome to spread this info ALL over the interwebz!!!/images/boards/smilies/thumb.gif
P.S. As a pro with a great deal of experience tuning cars it would be possible but not probable to get the bent rear axle car faster, but not without a great deal of time tuning. As a novice with very little experience it is very unlikely to happen. /images/boards/smilies/wave.gif
Final specs of car and write up on how to paint it for those that want to know how to do it.
The new front axle weight after the COM adjustment is .564 oz, car weight is 5 oz the wheelbase is 5.5 the weight before paint was very close to the final weight. I primed with a K200 style high build automotive sandable primer @$50 per quart(mixed 4:1:1 using a SataJet 92 gravity feed HVLP gun), for sealer i used a white base coat @ $35 per quart(mixed 1:1.5 satajet 2000 gravity feed HVLP gun) for the color I used House of Kolor Lime Time Green @$120 a quart(mixed 1:1.5 satajet 2000 gravity feed HVLP gun) let it dry completely not to tac then follow by tap water splashed on the paint(by hand or with water bottle that has never had any chemicals in it) and 15 psi from an Iwata HP-CS airbrush from the front with white then the back with black base coat @ $35 per quart each on a 10 degree angle misting only the droplets(don't blow the droplets around or it will mess the end results up bad. Let the water evaporate naturally repeat for each side then House of Kolor Clear @ $150 for quart set up(mixed 4:1:1 with a satajet 95 gravity feed HVLP gun). If you lay the layers on thin enough you can get close with your weight. If your are heavy handed like my last car stay away from the weight like 3-4 oz max and add the extra weight after the base coat is finished then clear or add after the clear if you aren't worried about the bottoms final looks. If you do this all with an Iwata airbrush lightly go right up to the 5 oz 4.8 oz area then adjust before clearing for beauty and weight. You will have a lot of paint left over. Your local auto body paint supplier can sell by the oz if you wish and most body shops will donate base coat(and clear if they are really nice) if you tell them what it's for.
I now have to refinish the bottom of the car where I adjusted the COM but thats ok its easy to fix.
I will post the images when I refinish the bottom.
The new front axle weight after the COM adjustment is .564 oz, car weight is 5 oz the wheelbase is 5.5 the weight before paint was very close to the final weight. I primed with a K200 style high build automotive sandable primer @$50 per quart(mixed 4:1:1 using a SataJet 92 gravity feed HVLP gun), for sealer i used a white base coat @ $35 per quart(mixed 1:1.5 satajet 2000 gravity feed HVLP gun) for the color I used House of Kolor Lime Time Green @$120 a quart(mixed 1:1.5 satajet 2000 gravity feed HVLP gun) let it dry completely not to tac then follow by tap water splashed on the paint(by hand or with water bottle that has never had any chemicals in it) and 15 psi from an Iwata HP-CS airbrush from the front with white then the back with black base coat @ $35 per quart each on a 10 degree angle misting only the droplets(don't blow the droplets around or it will mess the end results up bad. Let the water evaporate naturally repeat for each side then House of Kolor Clear @ $150 for quart set up(mixed 4:1:1 with a satajet 95 gravity feed HVLP gun). If you lay the layers on thin enough you can get close with your weight. If your are heavy handed like my last car stay away from the weight like 3-4 oz max and add the extra weight after the base coat is finished then clear or add after the clear if you aren't worried about the bottoms final looks. If you do this all with an Iwata airbrush lightly go right up to the 5 oz 4.8 oz area then adjust before clearing for beauty and weight. You will have a lot of paint left over. Your local auto body paint supplier can sell by the oz if you wish and most body shops will donate base coat(and clear if they are really nice) if you tell them what it's for.
I now have to refinish the bottom of the car where I adjusted the COM but thats ok its easy to fix.
I will post the images when I refinish the bottom.
I'm not one to paint my cars anymore. Thought it was cool a while ago, then I found out the paint doesnt make you faster...
microbrush said:
It says polishing and/or modifications are allowed also grooving is allowed...which in turns means he can use the 92's. If the question arises then he can tell them that he modified them. If the there cars are as fast as it shows in his quote then I beat you they are using some type of modified axles and wheels.
Go ahead and use them and kick some butt. Good Luck to you.
V
Vitamin K
Guest
AC Designs said:
I don't quite read "modifications" as meaning "to replace entirely with aftermarket parts." That's some Bill Clinton level language interpretation, there. /images/boards/smilies/wink.gif
M
microbrush
Guest
yzboy250 said:
Can we please try and stick to the rules! The last pinewood derby kit I got did not come with 92 DD axels. He can't bent or angle the rear wheels only the front. I still think he can't use the revel axels. Maybe he could get clarification as they allow the colored wheels. You could use the China wheels though you would not want to.
Get some red rocket and wheels (see above) from John.
I would rather follow the rules and loose, then to teach my son that rules are made to be broken and to encourage joy from cheating.
" Camber and Toeing of the rear wheels are prohibited"
That doesn't mean you can't canter the axles. The wheels just need to be able to sit flat when resting on the floor/table. Having just a 1* canter of your axles will allow the wheels to still sit flat but as the wheel spins the slight angle will still allow the wheels to migrate to the heads. I am confident that most scout cars that have gone through their inspection have are not going to have axles perfectly parallel to the ground. A 1* angle is VERY small and the average scout car's range of error for each axle is at least that much of a variance anyways and likely in all different directions. Purposely biasing your axle angle slightly towards where you want it to go I think still falls within the region of reasonable error for a PWD car.
That doesn't mean you can't canter the axles. The wheels just need to be able to sit flat when resting on the floor/table. Having just a 1* canter of your axles will allow the wheels to still sit flat but as the wheel spins the slight angle will still allow the wheels to migrate to the heads. I am confident that most scout cars that have gone through their inspection have are not going to have axles perfectly parallel to the ground. A 1* angle is VERY small and the average scout car's range of error for each axle is at least that much of a variance anyways and likely in all different directions. Purposely biasing your axle angle slightly towards where you want it to go I think still falls within the region of reasonable error for a PWD car.
I agree if he is to win he will be required to do it without cheating. I do appreciate all the advice I will keep it for the day they loosen the rules up some. No matter what he places he will have the best looking car there as he does every year. He is required to pick and sand the shape I cut it. He has to prime and lay the base coat currently he isn't allowed to do the graphics this year his hand still isn't steady enough and can't contr the gun well enough yet. Maybe next year he will do the graphics. As I stated previously he cares about speed I care about paint.
yzboy250 said:
This rule irritates me. Technically, a boy cannot add a Lego character, or a driver, or whatever his imagination comes up with. More wordiness in an effort to achieve "fairness", and failing.
Crash Enburn said:
Even worse, this rule, when followed to the letter makes weighting and painting burdensome. Where can I get officially licensed weights and paint? Anyone? Bueller?
Oh so you can buy something as long as it has the BSA seal on huh? Just another way to pad their pocket. I thought those types of rules were meant to make it fair to the boys who couldn't afford to buy extra items...well I guess as long as it goes to the BSA then those type of rules don't apply. Makes me want to cut that BSA sticker off and tape it to John's wheels and axles!
