Wheel preparation...what really works?
- Thread starter DuckOfAllTrades
- Start date
Regarding "bracketracer" suggestion to carefully hand select the wheels (with even just a homemade runout gauge if possible) ... I took this approach with my scout: http://www.derbytalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=6655. I purchased a digital dial indicator and several size pin Gage's from Amazon ... I think the total was $30. We had a good time going through a mound of wheels trying to find the smallest run-out.
A couple more ideas for ya duckofalltrades.
Sand (nothing lower than 1000grit and don't sand excessively) and polish (same polish as used in the wheel bore) the wheel treads and inner tread edge.
Polish the inner and outer hubs
Scott
Sand (nothing lower than 1000grit and don't sand excessively) and polish (same polish as used in the wheel bore) the wheel treads and inner tread edge.
Polish the inner and outer hubs
Scott
I was not trying to be argumentative, but rather, offering up a different point of view with some rational other than "buy wheels because I said so and they are faster." And the "help" offer is always open. I love the hobby for some very silly reason...
Thank you EVERYONE for your awesome replies and for taking your time to help me out. These are all wonderful suggestions and something I never would have thought of. Definitely gives me something to think about. I'll take al suggestions to heart. In the end I don't care if my scout wins or loses. I just want him to have fun and learn something. 
Another question, and thanks in advance.
In my sons rules, it states:
DO NOT “cone” or “round” the inside hub of the wheel.
Is this an antiquated rule? I've been told since 2010, the wheels actually have a coned hub.
I am breaking down and looking into lightly lathed matched wheels, but can't find any without a coned hub.
Also thinking of getting a pinewood block pre drilled from Derby Dad 4 Hire for the adult race. These are so awesome and seem like it would make tuning easy.
In my sons rules, it states:
DO NOT “cone” or “round” the inside hub of the wheel.
Is this an antiquated rule? I've been told since 2010, the wheels actually have a coned hub.
I am breaking down and looking into lightly lathed matched wheels, but can't find any without a coned hub.
Also thinking of getting a pinewood block pre drilled from Derby Dad 4 Hire for the adult race. These are so awesome and seem like it would make tuning easy.
Also, has anyone had any experience with the Derby Worx Pro Rail Riding tool? It has good feedback on Amazon. I've looked into buying pre bent axles, and they aren't cheap. Would be nice to be able to create these and save money. I know you don't need one to bend them, but sure would be nice to be able to get the right angle.
"I am breaking down and looking into lightly lathed matched wheels, but can't find any without a coned hub."
https://derbydad4hire.com/The-Dynasty-BASX-set-of-4-wheels-W-BASX.htm If your referring to the outer hub then see the selection option for Outer Hub Fix for the above URL
https://derbydad4hire.com/The-Dynasty-BASX-set-of-4-wheels-W-BASX.htm If your referring to the outer hub then see the selection option for Outer Hub Fix for the above URL
Sounds like the rule may have been written when the wheels (pre 2009) had a flat inner hub. All new style wheels already have a slightly coned inner hub. Going by what u said in your other post about the wheels I'm thinking lathed wheels will not be considered legal especially if they are lathed enough to easily see that they have been lathed. For example the lathing got into the tread bumps or the diameter was significantly reduced. Stock wheels are around 1.184 to 1.186 diameter. If they are lathed below 1.180 it becomes noticeable to a trained naked eye.
I have stayed out of this thread ...these discussions are good, but a lot of what drives one person to a decision is outside of the comfort zone of the next.
I have only sent a few cars in to race at the NPWDRL, so take that into consideration when reading my thoughts.
In my humble opinion, there really is not a wrong decision.
I would never consider using wheels turned on my DW wheel shaver for racing at the NPWDRL level if I wanted to be competitive. However, you can turn a wheel and get decent results. It takes practice, more practice, and then MORE practice. It is hard on the hands. They will get tired. I ruined at least 8 wheels before I even got one that was ok.
You can turn a decent wheel for Scout races with some practice and some work.
What I did after first starting out with the wheel shaver is to modify/prep it so that the results could be better. I polished the hub portion of the tool the same as I would any axle. Likewise, I polished the entire area inside of the wheel shaver that the blade travels in. I also lightly rounded all of the edges of the actual blade (except for the cutting edge), so that the blade moved freely and did not bind. I attached a couple of pictures below so you can see what I am talking about.
I also sharpen the blade after every wheel and sometimes during the middle of a wheel. I have found that some of the wheels are harder and some even have hard spots in them. The best I have done is to get wheels within about 0.0005", but most of the time they end up at 0.0008"- 0.0015". This takes time!
The other piece of advice that I could give to someone that has not been mentioned is ....CONCENTRATE on keeping the wheel running surface perpendicular to the hub tool. That is one of the reasons I polished the hub tool. I practiced rotating the wheel without having the blade engaged on the wheel tread. This allowed me to become comfortable with keeping the wheel in the correct orientation. Then engage the blade SLOWLY!!! If you do it SLOWLY, then you are still TOO fast! By having the hub surface of the tool polished, it helps me feel when I have the correct contact on that surface. This in turn helps to keep the wheel running surface parallel to the blade and GREATLY lessons the "digging in" that occurs way too often.
So, can you get decent results with the DW shaver ...in my humble opinion, yes you can, but it will take some time. I also want to add that what B Regal has said in not wrong either! It really depends on where YOU want to spend time and effort with YOUR Scout. And of course, it depends on what the rules are!
Good luck with whatever you decide!
I have only sent a few cars in to race at the NPWDRL, so take that into consideration when reading my thoughts.
In my humble opinion, there really is not a wrong decision.
I would never consider using wheels turned on my DW wheel shaver for racing at the NPWDRL level if I wanted to be competitive. However, you can turn a wheel and get decent results. It takes practice, more practice, and then MORE practice. It is hard on the hands. They will get tired. I ruined at least 8 wheels before I even got one that was ok.
You can turn a decent wheel for Scout races with some practice and some work.
What I did after first starting out with the wheel shaver is to modify/prep it so that the results could be better. I polished the hub portion of the tool the same as I would any axle. Likewise, I polished the entire area inside of the wheel shaver that the blade travels in. I also lightly rounded all of the edges of the actual blade (except for the cutting edge), so that the blade moved freely and did not bind. I attached a couple of pictures below so you can see what I am talking about.
I also sharpen the blade after every wheel and sometimes during the middle of a wheel. I have found that some of the wheels are harder and some even have hard spots in them. The best I have done is to get wheels within about 0.0005", but most of the time they end up at 0.0008"- 0.0015". This takes time!
The other piece of advice that I could give to someone that has not been mentioned is ....CONCENTRATE on keeping the wheel running surface perpendicular to the hub tool. That is one of the reasons I polished the hub tool. I practiced rotating the wheel without having the blade engaged on the wheel tread. This allowed me to become comfortable with keeping the wheel in the correct orientation. Then engage the blade SLOWLY!!! If you do it SLOWLY, then you are still TOO fast! By having the hub surface of the tool polished, it helps me feel when I have the correct contact on that surface. This in turn helps to keep the wheel running surface parallel to the blade and GREATLY lessons the "digging in" that occurs way too often.
So, can you get decent results with the DW shaver ...in my humble opinion, yes you can, but it will take some time. I also want to add that what B Regal has said in not wrong either! It really depends on where YOU want to spend time and effort with YOUR Scout. And of course, it depends on what the rules are!
Good luck with whatever you decide!
Thanks, that's incredibly helpful. I definitely won't give up and will give it another shot.
If I can ask, how do you sharpen the blade? That might do the trick for me.
I use a flat surface like a top of a table saw or something else that is FLAT and solid. Then I grab a small piece of wet/dry sandpaper ... maybe about 1200 grit ... add a little water a drag/ pull the blade while matching the small back-cut angle as close as I can. It normally only takes a few passes (6-10) and it is sharp again. Just drag the blade on top of a fingernail. It shiould dig in with just the weight from the blade. There will be no question when it is sharp. If I remember correctly, I think there is a video out there (maybe from DW) with tips on how to use the tool along with how to sharpen it.
Something else I have thought of, but never tried, is to put the tool in a vise so the wheel would be facing up. Make sure to level the tool so the running surface of the wheel should be straight up vertically. This might help a person keep the wheel in contact with the hub and thus the wheel surface parallel to the cutting blade. It would also allow you to concentrate on just the orientation of the wheel and not trying to hold the tool. I really feel that a slow feed and proper wheel orientation is what keeps the tool from digging in and binding.
I have one and use it regularly. For two years we placed using bent rears and a bent front. I might even be one of those positive reviews on Amazon. It is somewhat inconsistent in how it bends axles depending on the hardness of the axle, how you strike it, and the relative position of the moon and planets. However, adding a couple strips of business card seems to help if you are going for a deeper bend. We used it for this year's front dominant wheel axle. Results remain unknown until Saturday.
Keep in mind that you have to have the axle press also for it to work, so total cost will be around $30.
If you don't have an axle drilling jig, I'd put the money towards that first. Drilled canted rears are way better than bent ones, and the angle on the FDW is not super critical since there is only one of them.
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