BASX rules and Puma Racing Weights

[LightninBoy]

Ok, I hate being Debbie Downer here and keep bringing up rules. And I didn't want to interrupt the other thread which was having a great discussion about the genesis of the Puma Racing weights.

But before when I was questioning the legality of these weights, I was only thinking in terms of Street Stock. But some people asked about BASX too, and when my mind went there, I couldn't see a way that these are legal for BASX.

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Car Body / Dimensions

Wheel Base : Any
Height : Not to exceed 3″ inches…
Length : Not to exceed 7″ inches…
Width : Not to exceed 1-3/4″ inches…
Weight : Not to exceed 5.0 ounces (143 grams) measured on 1/10th digital scale

Additional materials maybe added as long as they meet the rules
Wood must be used to construct your own body and/or frame
4 Axles & Wheels must be installed to the side of the car body directly across from one another / No more than a 10 degree angle

NO FENDERS OR ANY AERODYNAMIC MODIFICATIONS OR DECORATIONS ALLOWED MOUNTED TO THE SIDES OF THE CARS

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One could argue these aren't fenders or decorations, and the aero benefit is secondary so its not an aero mod. That would be a major stretch given that aero is one of the stated benefits. But even with all that leeway given, the weights still violate the width rule - not to exceed 1-3/4 inch. So the BASX rules need to change to allow these weights to be used in the class, if that is desired.

Similarly, the rules need to change if the intent is to allow:
* weights glued to the wood inside the wheel cavity (these violate the current width rule)
* wheel plugs that are attached to the body that fill in the wheel cavity for better aero (these violate the width rule and the no aero mods attached to the sides)

Personally, I'd rather keep these weights out of the BASX class. They are pretty expensive and the whole reason for the BASX class is to not need to spend a lot of money to be competitive. Granted, there are cheaper ways to take advantage of the same concept - but none will be as effective.

 

[Crash Enburn]

+1 on all counts.

 

[Kinser Racing]

If weight is the car body it could also be said that the axles and wheels are the car body therefore going beyond the 1 3/4" rule. They're all "Attached".

If weight placement inside of the wheel cavity is an aerodynamic "Modification" placed on the side of the car so is tape to hold in the weights on the bottom "Side" of the car.

We can interpret the rules.

 

[bracketracer]

I don't know that the expense is really a factor is it LB? Four ounces of 1/4" cubes is around $23, only a little less than the wheel cavity weights.

 

[LightninBoy]

I don't know that the expense is really a factor is it LB? Four ounces of 1/4" cubes is around $23, only a little less than the wheel cavity weights.

I'll admit that the expense point is subjective. However, for a valid comparison we need to account for the total cost of weighting a car. Traditional tungsten cube weights will cost $18 for 4 ounces. With the Puma weights + 1.4 oz of traditional cubes, 4 oz will be approximately $36 ($30 + (1.4oz * $4.5/oz)). That is $18 more (and 100% more) than traditional weighting methods.

Also consider that the rules are currently designed to keep out $30 dollar GEE fenders even though there are cheap (as in almost free) alternatives. They also are designed to keep out $22 Rage wheels that are only $7 more than the fully modded BASX wheels. So, if $7 dollars was factor before, then $18 dollars should be a factor now.

All that said, reasonable people can disagree on whether the Puma weights should be kept out of BASX based on cost. I think a valid argument can be made that it is possible to augment the Puma weights with cheaper material (e.g. lead or Tundra) without sacrificing performance. However, should the decision be that they are allowed, then the BASX rules need to change. Kinser's silly semantic gymnastics only further validate that point.

 

[DerbyDad4Hire]

Kinser is dead on with the width argument. If he is wrong then fenders would not be legal in the other classes. You have a valid point with the aero argument.

The BASX class is an affordable option to race. We already discussed the entry level tag as entry is the wrong word and should have been changed. The cause of the performance increase given by the weights has yet to be determined whether aero or some physics explanation regarding the weight disbursement is the true benefit.

I do agree the rules need to reflect the change and will be fixed right away to clear it up.

 

[Double Ds]

DD4H do you mean fenders are ok in basx class

 

[GravityX]

DD4H do you mean fenders are ok in basx class

I don't believe that is what he meant. I believe he was only referring to the Puma weights.

 

[LightninBoy]

Kinser is dead on with the width argument. If he is wrong then fenders would not be legal. You have a valid point with the aero argument.

Not to belabor this, but if these points aren't fully understood then the rule changes you've agreed to make may not make it better.

Fenders are LEGAL in other classes because the width rule in other classes is 2-3/4". The BASX class is unique in that the body width rule is 1 3/4" with the exact intent of making fenders illegal and clearly defining where the "side" of the car begins so no one extends the body of the car past 1-3/4 and then attaches fenders on top.

Although the width rules are for the car body only, the following line incorporates all attachments into these dimensional rules:

Additional materials maybe added as long as they meet the rules

However, one exception is explicitly called out for wheels and axles.

4 Axles & Wheels must be installed to the side of the car body directly across from one another

Admittedly, this is where it gets a little murky. Common sense would now dictate that the wheels and axles are not subject to the 1-3/4" width rule. But a little extra clarity here wouldn't hurt.

To allow wheel cavity weights you can make a similar exception to the width rule for wheel cavity weights.

 

[Guest]

My take is that the area inside of the wheel cavity technically doesn't qualify as the side of the car since having wheels and axles on the outside are just a given, then using the same logic these weights should be viewed as just that - weights, they too should be exempt and be allowed to exist in the dimension that the wheel takes up. Technically oil and Jig-a-loo exist on the outside of the car but they too get a free pass.

 

[Mister B Racing]

In my thinking, the BASX body rule states the body can be no wider than 1-3/4". If the wheel cavity weights are attached to the side of the body, then that violates the body width rule.

 

[DerbyDad4Hire]

In my thinking, the BASX body rule states the body can be no wider than 1-3/4". If the wheel cavity weights are attached to the side of the body, then that violates the body width rule.

This would apply to the axles also.

 

[Mister B Racing]

In my thinking, the BASX body rule states the body can be no wider than 1-3/4". If the wheel cavity weights are attached to the side of the body, then that violates the body width rule.

This would apply to the axles also.

LOL ... Yes once the axles are inserted into the body one could say they violate the width rule.

! I like new innovative products as much as the next person. I agree about amending the rules to allow the use of the new weights but I don't want to have the rules amended so much that the BASX class is no longer an inexpensive way to race.

 

[DerbyDad4Hire]

In my thinking, the BASX body rule states the body can be no wider than 1-3/4". If the wheel cavity weights are attached to the side of the body, then that violates the body width rule.

This would apply to the axles also.

LOL ... Yes once the axles are inserted into the body one could say they violate the width rule. ! I like new innovative products as much as the next person. I agree about amending the rules to allow the use of the new weights but I don't want to have the rules amended so much that the BASX class is no longer an inexpensive way to race.

I completely agree. The problem is that we could argue that further and say you can only weight with lead because tungsten is too expensive.

 

[LightninBoy]

In my thinking, the BASX body rule states the body can be no wider than 1-3/4". If the wheel cavity weights are attached to the side of the body, then that violates the body width rule.

This would apply to the axles also.

And that's why the rules need to be clarified. The rules need to clearly state what are exceptions to the 1-3/4 width rule. This isn't a problem in other classes because the width rule is 2-3/4.

 

[DerbyDad4Hire]

You can use the wheel weights.

 

[GravityX]

We're going to need a lawyer to draw up a set of rules for this you know....

 

[LightninBoy]

Car Body / Dimensions

Wheel Base : Any
Height : Not to exceed 3″ inches…
Length : Not to exceed 7″ inches…
Width : Not to exceed 1-3/4″ inches…
Total Car Weight : Not to exceed 5.0 ounces (143 grams) measured on 1/10th digital scale

Additional materials maybe added as long as they meet the rules
Wood must be used to construct your own body and/or frame
4 Axles & Wheels must be installed to the side of the car body directly across from one another / No more than a 10 degree angle

NO FENDERS, AERODYNAMIC MODIFICATIONS, WEIGHTS OR DECORATIONS ALLOWED MOUNTED IN ANY FASHION TO SEAT IN FRONT OF OR BEHIND THE WHEELS OR ANYWHERE ON THE SIDE BETWEEN THE FRONT AND REAR WHEEL.

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That's exactly what I was afraid of. The wheel weights are still not legal. They violate the 1-3/4 rule. All added materials must meet the rules.

 

[LightninBoy]

We're going to need a lawyer to draw up a set of rules for this you know....

Seriously, this ain't rocket biology.

 

[GravityX]

We're going to need a lawyer to draw up a set of rules for this you know....

Seriously, this ain't rocket biology.

Was only trying to make light of this.... because it ain't rocket biology.

Failed attempt I guess.

Move along... nothing to see here.