BASX rules and Puma Racing Weights
- Thread starter LightninBoy
- Start date
I don't recall, who first coined the phrase "rocket biology". I don't think it was butterfinger, think it was that other guy who came later.
sorry to digress.
sorry to digress.
- Nov 24, 2011
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I agree completely with Lightnin' Boy on this. When you add weight to a car, it becomes part of the body. Add wheels and axles, and they become part of the car, not the body.
These weights do add a distinct advantage of weight location (and likely aero benefit, too). Declaring them legal for BASX (ignoring the whole body width thing) will pretty well force all competitors to buy the Puma weights, or guarantee a loss.
So much for BASX being a class of skill, and not of pocketbook.
These weights do add a distinct advantage of weight location (and likely aero benefit, too). Declaring them legal for BASX (ignoring the whole body width thing) will pretty well force all competitors to buy the Puma weights, or guarantee a loss.
So much for BASX being a class of skill, and not of pocketbook.
My body and weights are 2 separate things. Wood and tungsten don't grow together naturally.
P.s. Then could you technically make a fender out of tungsten for the BASX class. We might need a lawyer./images/boards/smilies/confused.gif
P.s. Then could you technically make a fender out of tungsten for the BASX class. We might need a lawyer./images/boards/smilies/confused.gif
Crash Enburn said:
This seems a little dramatic. I do not see how you are differentiating between the weights and axles. They both are fixed to the body. The majority of axle is in the body. Why are we not complaining about the cost of tungsten weights, aftermarket wheels and after market axles? There is no reason you couldn't do your own homemade version of the weights for next to nothing.
Pocketbook does not win races in pinewood derby at this level. Skill does.
Why does this same thing happen EVERYTIME rules get discussed?
G
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Guest
Hey if we can put weights outside the car I want my Wing!!! lol Just joking, just joking!
I figure I can make something pretty close to those Puma weights, well at least wouldn't probably matter till I started breaking the top 10 or 5 in 3-5 years! lol
The one good thing is they won't be too bad to transfer from car to car.
I figure I can make something pretty close to those Puma weights, well at least wouldn't probably matter till I started breaking the top 10 or 5 in 3-5 years! lol
The one good thing is they won't be too bad to transfer from car to car.
G
Guest
Guest
Corvid Racing said:
LOL!!!!
Dog, You crack me up!!
I was kinda agreeing with Lightningboy but now I am not sure
Only you fella.
DerbyDad4Hire said:
Ok John. I give up.
Just so I'm clear, what you are saying is that weight, like wheels and axles, are not subject to the car body dimension rules. Is that right?
Hey guys - I guess I have missed previous comments and discussions about the Puma Racing Weights. Is there a source and pictures of them somewhere? What do they weigh and how much do they cost? Is there more than one source? I figure I can make my own. Is there a limit on how much they weigh? Are they just glued on to the body?
I think some of you really have to take a step back. The intent or spirit of the body width rule was just to maintain a basic car body. John feels that the weights being inside the area encompassed by the wheels is within the rules he set up for the BASX class.
I think it is fair to raise the concern that this type of weighting method is beyond the intent of a basic class. I wouldn't base it on the wording of the no fender rules though. I don't know how much of a factor this type of method is with all other factors equal. Maybe doing it this way makes it easier to build a fast car, minimizing other factors that would otherwise have more of an effect on speed.
I think John should at least allow something like this on a probationary period for the BASX class and can be decided whether to get kept or only allowed on Street Stock after this next season is over. Maybe John will be more willing to allow or disallow certain things for that class based on feedback from the competitors since it is still new and not as established as the other classes. There doesn't really seem to be that many new innovations in PWD racing so I doubt this type of debate will come up too often going forward.
Should the BASX league be restricted to weights only be placed on top, inside, or under the car body? I don't think the wheel weight concept is too hard to replicate with household materials. Seems just stacking up some washers will get you something similar. I doubt the total weight inside the wheel is going to be the deciding factor if someone is using these specialized tungsten version vs someone with a lead or some other less dense material.
I think it is fair to raise the concern that this type of weighting method is beyond the intent of a basic class. I wouldn't base it on the wording of the no fender rules though. I don't know how much of a factor this type of method is with all other factors equal. Maybe doing it this way makes it easier to build a fast car, minimizing other factors that would otherwise have more of an effect on speed.
I think John should at least allow something like this on a probationary period for the BASX class and can be decided whether to get kept or only allowed on Street Stock after this next season is over. Maybe John will be more willing to allow or disallow certain things for that class based on feedback from the competitors since it is still new and not as established as the other classes. There doesn't really seem to be that many new innovations in PWD racing so I doubt this type of debate will come up too often going forward.
Should the BASX league be restricted to weights only be placed on top, inside, or under the car body? I don't think the wheel weight concept is too hard to replicate with household materials. Seems just stacking up some washers will get you something similar. I doubt the total weight inside the wheel is going to be the deciding factor if someone is using these specialized tungsten version vs someone with a lead or some other less dense material.
Just throwing this out there. Let's say the Puma weights were available 2 years ago and then the BASX class came along. Would the weights be OK then? Because by this time everyone would have acquired or have been using them for some period of time now. The weight would then naturally transition into the class, unless rules regulated them illegal for the class, and no one would have questioned. Or would they?
A few random thoughts running around in my head as a new guy after reading this thread...
I love the idea and ordered some to try in SS. Great job to the folks who worked this up and made them...thanks! I was thinking of gluing a couple cubes in there a few months ago also...this is much better!
As an overall view on BASX use, I liked the idea of a simple build trying to perfect the basic skills to make a fast car and having a comparison to all you guys. I was happy with my results at Nationals, although now I will have to buy and perfect installing these new weights and weight distribution (without a track) to have any comparison. I believe it would be more difficult than just slapping them on... getting the edges and camber lined up for best aero effect, no rubbing, etc. RC had a good point, lets make some tungsten fenders and glue them to the body, now they are just weights shaped conveniently not subject to the width rule, that's basically all that's missing compared to SS. Seems like there is some feature creep going on in BASX after only two races. Just make a fender-less SS class. Guys could easily add fenders, keep their WW's and wheels, and move up to SS if they choose, that would be the most economical for folks. If I don't buy the weights and most others are running them in BASX, will it be the alleged WW advantage or my build that wasn't good enough? How much time are we talking here again? That's the hook, if you run any class SP or lower from now on, you will be inferior if you don't buy these WW's. So which cars will get the weights I ordered? I currently have six cars, which ones will be staying home at the end of the month because I didn't have time or cash to convert all of them to be competitive? Just send them in anyway and try to beat the WW guys? The 1/4" cube sales just tanked..lol! I now have about 200 1/4" cubes for sale if anyone is interested! Trade for the wheel weights?
I love the idea and ordered some to try in SS. Great job to the folks who worked this up and made them...thanks! I was thinking of gluing a couple cubes in there a few months ago also...this is much better!
As an overall view on BASX use, I liked the idea of a simple build trying to perfect the basic skills to make a fast car and having a comparison to all you guys. I was happy with my results at Nationals, although now I will have to buy and perfect installing these new weights and weight distribution (without a track) to have any comparison. I believe it would be more difficult than just slapping them on... getting the edges and camber lined up for best aero effect, no rubbing, etc. RC had a good point, lets make some tungsten fenders and glue them to the body, now they are just weights shaped conveniently not subject to the width rule, that's basically all that's missing compared to SS. Seems like there is some feature creep going on in BASX after only two races. Just make a fender-less SS class. Guys could easily add fenders, keep their WW's and wheels, and move up to SS if they choose, that would be the most economical for folks. If I don't buy the weights and most others are running them in BASX, will it be the alleged WW advantage or my build that wasn't good enough? How much time are we talking here again? That's the hook, if you run any class SP or lower from now on, you will be inferior if you don't buy these WW's. So which cars will get the weights I ordered? I currently have six cars, which ones will be staying home at the end of the month because I didn't have time or cash to convert all of them to be competitive? Just send them in anyway and try to beat the WW guys? The 1/4" cube sales just tanked..lol! I now have about 200 1/4" cubes for sale if anyone is interested! Trade for the wheel weights?
It's funny that people are so worried about a unfair advantage with these. When I first saw these and tried them and what I'm using today cost $1.50 per side, and weigh about 15 grams each. The first car I put them on my car picked up, but I also tried a different cut on the wheels which I'm still using. The pick ups are not huge, not even large in fact I don't know if was the weights or the wheels. A well prepped car without these has just as much of a chance to win as well built one with them. Use them or don't, if you have everything else in order you will do fine.
Thanks QT, That's basically what I was wondering. How much difference?
It may still need to be determined exactly. From the discussion, it makes it sound like a lot. There was a comment earlier that roughly half the cars in the finals at Nationals had these? That still leaves half the cars in the finals that didn't.
It may still need to be determined exactly. From the discussion, it makes it sound like a lot. There was a comment earlier that roughly half the cars in the finals at Nationals had these? That still leaves half the cars in the finals that didn't.
LightninBoy said:
Waiting for confirmation here. Can you please confirm I understand you correctly?
I want to make sure I completely understand how you interpret the rules because before I didn't completely understand how you interpret the Street Stock rules and put myself at a disadvantage because of it.
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