BASX Rules Clarification

[Crash Enburn]

Mister B (and others wanting to jump in to a chorus of "DUH!"):
I was responding to "(a) lot of whining going on." I was showing the justification for the "whining".

Congrats on your finish for the ICE series! Shows what sticking with something can do.

 

[Mister B Racing]

Mister B (and others wanting to jump in to a chorus of "DUH!"):
I was responding to "(a) lot of whining going on." I was showing the justification for the "whining".

Congrats on your finish for the ICE series! Shows what sticking with something can do.

Ah... I understand what you are saying now! Didn't mean to get get anyone mad or upset! Hope to see you on the track!

Steve - Mister B

 

[Quicktimederby]

This is the EXACT reason the wheels are being offered to all, because there are some that DO have the ability to turn a good set of wheels. So should they be the only one's with a advantage? To many people are looking that this as if I don't have I can't compete, which is far from true. Get yourself within .005 of the top racer on what you got and if you can do that then spring for the wheels, if there are any left. The release of the wheels was not to drive up the cost of the class but to LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD. I wish John would stop doing stuff like releasing the wheels, it make it much more difficult for those of us that can turn a good wheel to stay out in front.

"they take twice as long to hand cut so they are not cheap" they should have been immediately disallowed. Yes, any racer could have found these NOS wheels. But nowhere near as many racers have the equipment or skills to turn them.

Under the current rule set, I will not participate in BASX.

 

[Crash Enburn]

As I said

Yes, these wheels would have, and should have been legal from the very get-go. But as soon as they were made available and listed as "they take twice as long to hand cut so they are not cheap" they should have been immediately disallowed.

and as many others said

Cheap

 

[LightninBoy]

Sorry QT, that argument flies in every division *except* BASX, which was created explicitly to keep costs down - and wheel cost specifically was even mentioned. As Crash noted, John said this himself when the division was created.

When the NOS wheel advantage was discovered, to keep with the original intent of the class the correct response was to disallow NOS wheels. The high price for these wheels is a proxy for the effort, skill, and rarity of the parts. Nothing that takes that long, or takes that much skill with specialized expensive tools, or requires access to a rare stock of parts, should be allowed in a class advertised as an entry level class.

If you really want to stick to your argument below, then fine - just stop advertising BASX as entry level. Call it what it has become ... a fenderless class. I don't understand the point of such a class and am not interested in racing in such a class. So like Crash, I will also not race in the Fenderless Class until its changed back to being a BASX class.

I don't mean to create drama. I've tried really hard to stay out of this. One thing I've learned over the past year is that if I'm patient, NPWDRL usually comes around and does the right thing. With John's planned "overhaul" of BASX, I'm hopeful that trend continues.

This is the EXACT reason the wheels are being offered to all, because there are some that DO have the ability to turn a good set of wheels. So should they be the only one's with a advantage? To many people are looking that this as if I don't have I can't compete, which is far from true. Get yourself within .005 of the top racer on what you got and if you can do that then spring for the wheels, if there are any left. The release of the wheels was not to drive up the cost of the class but to LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD. I wish John would stop doing stuff like releasing the wheels, it make it much more difficult for those of us that can turn a good wheel to stay out in front.

"they take twice as long to hand cut so they are not cheap" they should have been immediately disallowed. Yes, any racer could have found these NOS wheels. But nowhere near as many racers have the equipment or skills to turn them.

Under the current rule set, I will not participate in BASX.

 

[LightninBoy]

<------ Like this one?

Hand carved, from two pinewood blocks.

Yes! However, looking like an actual race car or street car would be optional.

 

[down4derby]

Im a fan of form follows function. A lot of full size performance cars look so awesome due to this. What makes a race car so strikingly beautiful? These new performance parts have that same affect on me. Btw I make my own wheel weights and wind deflectors myself, it's pretty cheap and easy once you figure it out.

 

[Quicktimederby]

A set of old style wheels cost about 7-12 bucks for the whole kit. That's pretty cheap. So since I have the tools and ability I can run them with no-one calling foul? It is cheap for me. The WHOLE reason for releasing them to everyone was fairness! So I guess fairness is only important if it's cheap.
To say your not going to run a class because it's more fair?!?!?! That's the part that rubs me wrong.

Sorry QT, that argument flies in every division *except* BASX, which was created explicitly to keep costs down - and wheel cost specifically was even mentioned. As Crash noted, John said this himself when the division was created.

 

[Quicktimederby]

Well since its cheap you can use them!

Btw I make my own wheel weights and wind deflectors myself, it's pretty cheap and easy once you figure it out.

 

[Rocket car]

Fender washers work great as wheel weights. 2 cents a piece. I use 6 of them. My total cost 12 cents. Sand them with 220 grit sand paper and super glue together.

 

[down4derby]

Well since its cheap you can use them!

Btw I make my own wheel weights and wind deflectors myself, it's pretty cheap and easy once you figure it out.

I was talking about the Cha Ching.

 

[LightninBoy]

To say your not going to run a class because it's more fair?!?!?! That's the part that rubs me wrong.

I never said anything like that.

What rubs me wrong is the consistent distortion and belittling of alternative points of view from John's lieutenants. Like I said though, John eventually gets it right, so I'll go back to my quiet protest and patiently wait for the return of the BASX class. Meanwhile count me out of the Fenderless class.

 

[Crash Enburn]

A set of old style wheels ... since I have the tools and ability I can run them with no-one calling foul?

Yes, these wheels would have, and should have been legal from the very get-go. But as soon as they were made available and listed as "they take twice as long to hand cut so they are not cheap" they should have been immediately disallowed.

"it's more fair" == "more expensive to keep up with the Joneses"

As to the wheel weights and wind deflectors,
a) I've made my own wheel weights out of lead (~22g each -- free),
b) it's my contention that they both fall outside of the original intent for the class and the 1-3/4" body width section of the original rules.

Like Joel and his bristling at the "won't run because it's more [expensive]", I bristle at the accusations of "whining" and the "shut up, you've never submitted a car so you're not allowed to voice an opinion."

 

[GravityX]

Well... interesting read thus far. I've got a BASX car (BASiX) that was built to the original specs back at the inception of this class, nothing has changed other than it's time to put new wheels on this car. I do not have a set of those touted wheels. What I do have, is a new set of the original 2.4 g wheels, I'll be running these next weekend. I'm just curious where I'll come out in the field. With a new prep I'm hoping for the best out of this car. Good luck to all next weekend!

 

[Quicktimederby]

I was not saying that you said you weren't going to race because of the wheels that was posted by Crash. I personally HATE the BASX class. I never raced it because it was suppose to be for the beginners. My first race in the class was the very last qualifying race, because of its high amount of racers it became part of the Man of the Mountain, which again I was not a fan of. It was pretty comical to see Pro built cars entered in the BASX class under different racers from the very first race.
I talk with John quite a bit. He is a good friend. I know the talks that we have had. I have never tried to distort anything that we've discussed. I do however really do get bugged with the ones the stir the pot when they haven't raced the class, and they feel they need a excuse. Which they don't. Race the class don't race the class. People that race here don't need excuses, we don't need a AM or PRO classes if you want to race against some of the fastest cars in the nation, then come take your lumps. Do we really need to make everyone a winner? Congratulations your the fastest of the slower cars. The ones that get the bumps and bruises are the ones that help push this stuff forward.
Also guess what I'm still going to race the SS class even though I haven't figured out your areo advantage. And if it comes to the point that I have to do it to get that last little bit. I'll do it, and not use it as a excuse not race a curtain class.
I do like that I'm a lieutenant now, that's a step up from a puppet, and nut swinger.

To say your not going to run a class because it's more fair?!?!?! That's the part that rubs me wrong.

I never said anything like that.

What rubs me wrong is the consistent distortion and belittling of alternative points of view from John's lieutenants. Like I said though, John eventually gets it right, so I'll go back to my quiet protest and patiently wait for the return of the BASX class. Meanwhile count me out of the Fenderless class.

 

[LightninBoy]

I do like that I'm a lieutenant now, that's a step up from a puppet, and nut swinger.

Anyone who puts in the time and effort you do for the league deserves more respect than being called a nut swinger. So I vacillated between "lieutenant" and "Chief Nutswinger".

 

[Cam-Car]

I would like to comment on the can of worms that the basic class has turned into.

When the Basix class first started someone complained that the more experienced racers were entering that class. My comment on this was that the class was not necessarily for beginners but was an "economy" class. I posted that opinion. After that, John posted that I was correct, not necessarily a beginners class but it was intended to be an inexpensive class.

Eventually, someone found that the old style wheels were faster than the wheels that come in today's kit. (All else being equal) There was nothing illegal about using these faster wheels and they were used. John, in an effort to level the playing field, got his hands on a limited supply of them and offered them to anyone who was willing to pay the price. The only problem now is that the definition of the class has gone out the window. I think John realizes this and like he said earlier, after this series the Basix class will probably undergo an overhaul. When this happens, my opinion is that the old style wheels can't be used. No fenders, no inside the wheel weights, or anything in or around the wheels that reduces air drag.

Also, I don't have a problem with people who have never raced in a class before voiceing their opinion. I sometimes complain about what the politicians do, but I've never run for office.

P.S. I think I have a pretty fast Basix car for this coming race and it was built according to the original intent of this class. Good luck to everyone.

 

[561 racing]

I'm going to be pissed if the predators can't be used in this class, but I don't think that would happen as John wouldn't be selling the wheels now if he was just going to disallow them later. I just want to see the class as body, 4 axles and 4 wheels.

 

[bracketracer]

Although I'm not really in favor of creating ANOTHER class, why not leave BASX alone as a fenderless class and have another class that uses any axle, modern mold 2.4g BSA wheels only, 1 3/4" wide body with nothing allowed on the sides at all besides wheels and axles? Call it "El Cheapo". If the class doesn't fill out then those cars can easilly be converted to BASX'ers or SS cars and drop the class.

 

[B_Regal Racing]

Wow! I never meant to cause such controversy. If I did, I would have asked if you would rather be insane in a functional society, or one of the people running a profoundly dysfunctional society. Or, maybe start a discussion to determine if guns make society safer or more violent?

Maybe even O'bama Care...