Cub Victory

[gdurban]

I first found this site shortly after my sons Cub races last year. I have 3 boys. My oldest was a Wolf and he won his den and the pack finals. My other 2 took 1st and 2nd in the Sibling race. We went to Districts and my Wolf took 2nd place to the same guy he lost to the year before as a Tiger.

So, I needed to find how to get faster. I have been diligently reading this site and asking questions. Well it paid off. My oldest is a Bear this year, my middle is a Tiger and my youngest still in the Sibling race. They all won their den. The Bear and Tiger took 1st and 2nd in the finals.

Thanks to all of you that shared your knowledge.

The 3 cars were built almost identical with the information I learned here. But my youngest's car was the fastest, by a significant amount. After the race I wanted to know why and the only thing I can figure is the steer was quite a bit more. 7 inches over 4 ft versus 4 inches for the other 2. I will be adjusting the steer for Districts and hope we can beat our nemesis.

So, thanks again for all your help. I have also been working on a BASX car of my own and plan to send it in once the Cub racing is done.

 

[gdurban]

A bit more info: we run on a 30 foot wooden track and I believe that is why the additional steer was a benefit. I hope we can get some more speed at districts.

 

[Thinkin'Bout Racin]

A bit more info: we run on a 30 foot wooden track and I believe that is why the additional steer was a benefit. I hope we can get some more speed at districts.

I am new here so take my advise with the appropriate amount of skepticism. Are you running on the same track at districts? If so, adding the additional steer might be beneficial. However, if you are moving to a better track, I think you should factor that into your thought process. BTW, nice looking cars!

 

[gdurban]

Our rules require the use of the original slots. I cut off the back end of the block and moved it to the front as described here so rear axles are 5/8" from back. I then filled the slots with wood epoxy and drilled with the Silver Bullet Pro, so had as good rear alignment as I can given these rules.

I cut out center voids and added balsa stabilizers. I used the 5Kids covering approach with Avery shipping labels. The boys were thrilled to pick out Minecraft Creeper, Spiderman and The Dog images. It saved a ton of time over the paint job from the year before. I wanted to go with MonoKote but the boys really wanted a more fun image, so we went that way.

I have a milling machine at work, and took the boys one at a time to have them cut out the weight pockets and body voids. It was a fun 1-on-1 day with each of them.

 

[gdurban]

I am new here so take my advise with the appropriate amount of skepticism. Are you running on the same track at districts? If so, adding the additional steer might be beneficial. However, if you are moving to a better track, I think you should factor that into your thought process. BTW, nice looking cars!

That is a very good point. Yes, we are running on the same track. I actually run the track for our pack and the district coordinator recruited me for the district race last year and I will be doing it again this year. If we were running on an aluminum track I would leave the steer at 4 " as you note.

View attachment 211

 

[Crash Enburn]

You sure you're a second year builder? Nice cars!

 

[gdurban]

You sure you're a second year builder? Nice cars!

Thanks, I appreciate it.
Actually 3rd year builder but I would not show you my first ones.....

 

[Quicktimederby]

Beautiful cars!!! Keep up the good work!
I would echo the thoughts on what track is being used at districts. If a smoother more consistent one is in play I wold relax the steer. With the Sliver bullet Pro the alignment should be dead on. That being said I have cars that are very aggressive on the weight and only have a .5-1.0 inch of steer and are stable as anything. But that is also on the NPWDRL track, other tracks can and will give you fits. I would stay with the 3-4 inch if on a metal track.

 

[gdurban]

Thanks, Quicktime. The districts use the same wood track. I take our pack track to districts.

The 3 cars are weighted almost identically. I used 3 scales and looked at the distribution. There are slight differences but nothing notable. Spidy and Creeper were within 0.001 sec (average over 8 runs) and they both has about 4" steer. Dog averaged about 0.02 sec faster...yes, 2/100 faster with 7" steer. That is the only difference I can see.

DFW DRW NDRW Total
Dog (Fastest) 0.504 2.010 2.529 5.043
Spidy 0.515 1.982 2.543 5.040
Creeper 0.504 1.989 2.550 5.043

The COM is pretty aggressive, a bit over 0.5". But again, it is the same on all 3 cars.

We have to use original nails from BSA box, so could just be differences in those but I found the straightest ones and prep'ed them all the same. Wheels were all trued the same. Nails polished with DD4H polish kit. Wheel bores polished with DD4H Black Ice. Pledge on axles with graphite burnish.

 

[gdurban]

I have to say, the track has seen better days. I took it over last year from the guy that has been doing it for a decade. It was a mess. I has to smooth a bunch of splintered edges, clean and sand the lanes smooth. It is much better but not what I would call a quality or consistent track. To me, this means the car is more likely to get bounced around and needs more steer to get it back to the rail quickly. Am I thinking about this right?

 

[Thinkin'Bout Racin]

Thanks, Quicktime. The districts use the same wood track. I take our pack track to districts.

The 3 cars are weighted almost identically. I used 3 scales and looked at the distribution. There are slight differences but nothing notable. Spidy and Creeper were within 0.001 sec (average over 8 runs) and they both has about 4" steer. Dog averaged about 0.02 sec faster...yes, 2/100 faster with 7" steer. That is the only difference I can see.

DFW DRW NDRW Total
Dog (Fastest) 0.504 2.010 2.529 5.043
Spidy 0.515 1.982 2.543 5.040
Creeper 0.504 1.989 2.550 5.043

The COM is pretty aggressive, a bit over 0.5". But again, it is the same on all 3 cars.

We have to use original nails from BSA box, so could just be differences in those but I found the straightest ones and prep'ed them all the same. Wheels were all trued the same. Nails polished with DD4H polish kit. Wheel bores polished with DD4H Black Ice. Pledge on axles with graphite burnish.

View attachment 212

So did you get any video of the different cars running on the various lanes? I would think that would tell you a lot. If the two slower cars moved around some while the faster car went basically straight, I would think you would have your answer. I know I would appreciate any feedback you have after adjusting the steer ...especially after seeing how the cars are weighted.

Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Did you set them up with different steer or did that happen by accident? Did one of them get dropped and change the steer?

Also, what is the COM on the 3 cars? Did one of them get some heavier cubes with lighter pine?

 

[gdurban]

sThe

So did you get any video of the different cars running on the various lanes? I would think that would tell you a lot. If the two slower cars moved around some while the faster car went basically straight, I would think you would have your answer. I know I would appreciate any feedback you have after adjusting the steer ...especially after seeing how the cars are weighted.

Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Did you set them up with different steer or did that happen by accident? Did one of them get dropped and change the steer?

Also, what is the COM on the 3 cars? Did one of them get some heavier cubes with lighter pine?

I did not get video but I recall seeing some wobble on one of the slower cars. I was running the track, so could not concentrate on the races as I would like. I am going to see if I can incorporate video next year.

Honestly, I did not realize how much better the one car did until looking at the times post race.

The COM and weight distribution of the 3 cars is in a previous post in this thread.

The difference in steer was an accident...kind of. I spend time getting the 2 cub cars to have steer at 4". The 3rd car was just for a Siblings race, so did not try to dial it in. It ended up with more steer and the best performance. Voodoo magic. LOL...

 

[Thinkin'Bout Racin]

sThe


I did not get video but I recall seeing some wobble on one of the slower cars. I was running the track, so could not concentrate on the races as I would like. I am going to see if I can incorporate video next year.

Honestly, I did not realize how much better the one car did until looking at the times post race.

The COM and weight distribution of the 3 cars is in a previous post in this thread.

The difference in steer was an accident...kind of. I spend time getting the 2 cub cars to have steer at 4". The 3rd car was just for a Siblings race, so did not try to dial it in. It ended up with more steer and the best performance. Voodoo magic. LOL...

I missed the COM earlier ...

Did you set the cars up with different steer or did it just happen?

 

[gdurban]

I missed the COM earlier ...

Did you set the cars up with different steer or did it just happen?

The difference in steer was an accident...kind of. I spend time getting the 2 cub cars to have steer at 4". The 3rd car was just for a Siblings race, so did not try to dial it in. It ended up with more steer and the best performance. Voodoo magic. LOL...

 

[Thinkin'Bout Racin]

The difference in steer was an accident...kind of. I spend time getting the 2 cub cars to have steer at 4". The 3rd car was just for a Siblings race, so did not try to dial it in. It ended up with more steer and the best performance. Voodoo magic. LOL...

So .....will you set the other cars to 7" ? Or will you try one at 6" and one at 8"? It would be really interesting to see what would happen! Especially since you have all of the other data.

Gotta like it when you learn something by accident!!!!

 

[gdurban]

So .....will you set the other cars to 7" ? Or will you try one at 6" and one at 8"? It would be really interesting to see what would happen! Especially since you have all of the other data.

Gotta like it when you learn something by accident!!!!

Good question...I was just going to match the fast one but you got me thinking. I'm not sure what I will do. I don't want to jeopardize either of my boys chances by messing with the cars too much.

 

[Rebel Racer]

Good question...I was just going to match the fast one but you got me thinking. I'm not sure what I will do. I don't want to jeopardize either of my boys chances by messing with the cars too much.

That's a good call! Don't fix what ain't broke!! Just spin some more graphite in there and run it. I've made that mistake before.

 

[Rebel Racer]

That's a good call! Don't fix what ain't broke!! Just spin some more graphite in there and run it. I've made that mistake before.

I'm not saying you wouldn't be able to improve but it's a gamble when you know your already fast!

 

[Thinkin'Bout Racin]

Good question...I was just going to match the fast one but you got me thinking. I'm not sure what I will do. I don't want to jeopardize either of my boys chances by messing with the cars too much.

Sounds like track test day, oops I mean another track inspection/preparation day is in order .

If I were in your shoes I don't know what I would do except that I would probably add some steer to the two slower cars. How much ...I don't know.

Good luck to you and your boys!

 

[gdurban]

Sounds like track test day, oops I mean another track inspection/preparation day is in order .

Yes, inspection/preparation may be in order....

Maybe in my living room...the wife will not like it.