Rules prohibit bending DFW axle. Need advice.

[noogaracer]

I am understanding "Axles cannot be grooved, or otherwise altered beyond light sanding to remove any burrs." to mean no bending of the axles, since bending axles "alters" them.

The above is among the rules for our council race.

So, if:
1. Bending the DFW axle is prohibited, and
2. Running with 3 wheels is allowed, and
3. Canting and toe are not prohibited, and
4. "Axles must be placed in the original axle grooves and attached securely (glued) so they do not turn. The grooves may be modified slightly as necessary to square with respect to the body but must retain the original wheel base and placement front and back." and
5. The builder has a Silver Bullet, and
6. Can only use stock GrandPrix parts....

We're considering filling the slots with epoxy and drilling. I've also considered drilling the opposite side of the block under the rule qualifier (2nd sentence) and then re-cutting slots. I guess it depends on how far one's conscience can go with "modified slightly as necessary to square...." Does using the other side of the block qualify "as necessary"?

How would you recommend getting the DFW drilled to create steer to run into the rail? We can go through our stash of extra axles and look for one with a bit of bend, but I don't think that alone will be enough.

 

[TRE]

just drill it with toe..if you have the silver bullet..you can do that

 

[561 racing]

just drill it with toe..if you have the silver bullet..you can do that

+1 or ask John to predrill one for you.

 

[noogaracer]

just drill it with toe..if you have the silver bullet..you can do that

+1 or ask John to predrill one for you.

I'll look for threads on how to drill with toe (or, more accurately, how to measure the proper angle for doing this with the SB).

Can't get John to drill (gotta do the crafting ourselves) due to the following rule:
"Use only Official BSA Grand Prix Pinewood Derby Kit wood, wheels and nails. Any cars or parts bought off Ebay, at Hobby Lobby or any other place that alters the original parts will be disqualified."

 

[TRE]

if you have the siver bullet..just get scrap wood to test put couple credit cards under the front of the bullet drill then test to see how much steer you have..just keep adjusting til you get 4 or 5 inces of steer over 4 feet..then drill your real block

 

[noogaracer]

So, drilling cant and toe on the DFW? Whatever trial and error measurement to get the toe to 4-5" over 4ft, as well as....what degree of positive cant? Any? Just use the pin from the SB at the same time as the credit cards? Or don't put cant on the DFW if I'm drilling toe?

My understanding, when axle bending is permitted, is to drill DFW straight and put enough bend in the axle to get both steer into the rail and positive cant on the DFW. So, in this case, I'm trying to replicate that with adjusting the angle(s) on the SB?

 

[TRE]

just do toe..if you wanna do cant and toe..you will have to tilt the table 3 degrees and use the cards for toe..you cant do both at the same time without tilting the table

 

[ngyoung]

I was thinking putting the supplied pin on the edge of the block so you can tilt the block on the back corner would give you canter and toe.

just do toe..if you wanna do cant and toe..you will have to tilt the table 3 degrees and use the cards for toe..you cant do both at the same time without tilting the table

 

[Vitamin K]

The problem I'd have with drilling for toe is that it isn't adjustable, and finding that sweet spot of drift is hard to do without actually testing it.

I think you might try two options:

1) Drill for positive camber, and find a stock axle with enough natural bend in it to give you some toe. This might be one area where BSA's cruddy axles does you some good.

2) Check out txchemist's build in which he detaches the front and and uses rubber bands and slow curing epoxy to hold it together while using paper shims to add drift. I think that this would be my method of choice, if I absolutely could not bend axles. http://www.pinewoodderbyonline.com/post/drift-adjustment-for-cubs-7000286?highlight=rubber+band&pid=1283633571

 

[Courtney S]

We could only use stock AWANA axles and because they are all a little bent ,I used the best axles in the rear and tested the others for the DFW and the steer was 2" over 5' on a wood track. The DFW was drilled straight.

 

[OPARENNEN]

I am understanding "Axles cannot be grooved, or otherwise altered beyond light sanding to remove any burrs." to mean no bending of the axles, since bending axles "alters" them.

The above is among the rules for our council race.

So, if:
1. Bending the DFW axle is prohibited, and
2. Running with 3 wheels is allowed, and
3. Canting and toe are not prohibited, and
4. "Axles must be placed in the original axle grooves and attached securely (glued) so they do not turn. The grooves may be modified slightly as necessary to square with respect to the body but must retain the original wheel base and placement front and back." and
5. The builder has a Silver Bullet, and
6. Can only use stock GrandPrix parts....

We're considering filling the slots with epoxy and drilling. I've also considered drilling the opposite side of the block under the rule qualifier (2nd sentence) and then re-cutting slots. I guess it depends on how far one's conscience can go with "modified slightly as necessary to square...." Does using the other side of the block qualify "as necessary"?

How would you recommend getting the DFW drilled to create steer to run into the rail? We can go through our stash of extra axles and look for one with a bit of bend, but I don't think that alone will be enough.

OK, with those rules, this is the solution to your problem, even though it may be too late this year.
Go to DD4H site, and buy a predrilled block for "4 on the floor". The steer will be correct, and all axles go in unbent. If necessary, i.e. if you have to use a block from the BSA kit, send the block to John, and have it predrilled by him. What he does, is drill both front block holes at a slight angle so they steer right. I tried and tried to drill this angle myself, and never succeeded. So just go to John.

 

[noogaracer]

Can't use parts (even stock parts from the kit) altered by a third party. /images/boards/smilies/frown.gif

Otherwise, that's a great idea, Oparennen.

Fortunately, with not needing all four on the floor, we could make an attempt with a 3-wheeler, and if so, I may be able to find an axle with enough natural bend to take Vitamin K's suggestion.

(Having posted this, and gotten good input and advice, we may not be able to enter the race after all, since I'm about to change jobs and sell the house to relocate!! So my sanding, drilling, and sawing are getting re-directed to other projects.) :^D

 

[Mr Chips Racing]

Easiest option is to purchase a pre-drilled, pre-tuned block from DD4H. It has preset turn already drilled. Use straight axles and done.

 

[Quicktimederby]

Can't have a friend help? John is all of ours friend. The rules make it sound like you shouldn't be asking for help from a 3rd party either. Good luck with the build.

Can't use parts (even stock parts from the kit) altered by a third party. /images/boards/smilies/frown.gif

Otherwise, that's a great idea, Oparennen.

Fortunately, with not needing all four on the floor, we could make an attempt with a 3-wheeler, and if so, I may be able to find an axle with enough natural bend to take Vitamin K's suggestion.

(Having posted this, and gotten good input and advice, we may not be able to enter the race after all, since I'm about to change jobs and sell the house to relocate!! So my sanding, drilling, and sawing are getting re-directed to other projects.) :^D

 

[GravityX]

Didn't 5Kids have a DFW setup without a bent front axle that canted an adjustable axle hole? I believe someone else did it too with good results (BR).