Hey guys, I am looking to buy a dial indicator to measure wheel runnout. Can someone point me in the right direction. I would like the one that the wheels go right on. I don't have the tools or know how to make my own thanks guys
dial indicator
- Thread starter whitaker717
- Start date
- Nov 24, 2011
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If I were you, I would just buy wheels from DerbyDad4Hire and not worry about spending extra money on tools you may not use very much. /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif
G
Guest
Guest
Kinser, you guys must be related /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif. I like doing to much of the work myself. Whats that saying, give a man a fish he eats for a day, or teach a man to fish he eats for a lifetime. Plus i'm kinda cheap.lol
whitaker717 said:
I thought it was; Build a man a fire and he is warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life....
At any rate, I use a Starrett Last Word test indicator
whitaker717 said:
Your wheel runout will be under .010" for stock wheels and under .001" for trued wheels. Buy the best quality that fits your budget and covers that range. /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif
The Guy started a thread on asking what tool you all prefer to check wheel run-out, and the answer is to purchase DD4H wheels?????? I joined this forum about a year ago, and most of the answers from the main members concerning new member question have been. Your lucky now to be racing, we have figured out all the work and you need to do the time and go through trial and aer. You need to earn information. Now this racer asks a question on a tool to learn things about wheels and do some testing him self and he gets buy DD4h Wheels??? I understand DD4H wheels are done right and true, but sounds like he want to work on wheels himself.
Not looking to fight or get ganged up on, he just wants to know of a tool for checking wheel run-out
Scott
Not looking to fight or get ganged up on, he just wants to know of a tool for checking wheel run-out
Scott
Our district race required that we use wheels that have not been modified in any way, so I wanted to find wheels with the least amount of runout.
I had a 0-1" dial indicator on a magnetic base that I purchased from Harbor Freight. I also had a Derby Worx Pro Hub tool that I purchased 3 years ago when my son started in scouts. The magnetic base for the indicator has a V groove in the bottom that I place the Pro Hub Tool in and clamp down with some clamps. I put the wheel on the pin of the Hub Tool and adjust the indicator tip to measure the runout of the wheel.
This setup is not laboratory quality, but it will let you know which wheels have the least amount of runout. Out of about 8 sets of BSA wheels I found 2 wheels that had .001" runout and 1 that had .002" runout. Since we are running a 3-wheel rail-rider, the fourth wheel we used for the Non Dominant Front Wheel (the wheel that doesn't touch) was the one that weighed the least. I am currently at work, otherwise I would post a picture of the apparatus for measuring the runout. I will post a pic later tonight after I get home and get some down time.
I had a 0-1" dial indicator on a magnetic base that I purchased from Harbor Freight. I also had a Derby Worx Pro Hub tool that I purchased 3 years ago when my son started in scouts. The magnetic base for the indicator has a V groove in the bottom that I place the Pro Hub Tool in and clamp down with some clamps. I put the wheel on the pin of the Hub Tool and adjust the indicator tip to measure the runout of the wheel.
This setup is not laboratory quality, but it will let you know which wheels have the least amount of runout. Out of about 8 sets of BSA wheels I found 2 wheels that had .001" runout and 1 that had .002" runout. Since we are running a 3-wheel rail-rider, the fourth wheel we used for the Non Dominant Front Wheel (the wheel that doesn't touch) was the one that weighed the least. I am currently at work, otherwise I would post a picture of the apparatus for measuring the runout. I will post a pic later tonight after I get home and get some down time.
whitaker717 said:
OK, so I am old and loosing my memory.
With that excuse, please explain to me what "runout" is, and how do you use a dial indicator in its determination?
G
Guest
Guest
Scott,
I think Kinser is just trying to save someone time, frustration and money. I dove headfirst into trying to lathe wheels and had no idea how complicated it was. My best work is not even half as good as Johns. The more I'm learning the more I realize why some guys are hush hush on turning wheels. Had I not tried to turn my own wheels and build my own fenders I'd probably have cars in Utah right now but instead I had to buy HSS bits, figure out how to sharpen them, cut and polish mandrel to size only to find out my chuck has runout, investigate collets, 4 jaw chucks and other options to eradicate the runout, figure out what shaped bit and cut angle to use on each cut, what speed, how to keep temperature down, can a spray lube help cutting and which one. And then when all that was said and done only to figure out my $15 harbor freight digital indicator is inaccurate by 2 thousandth and that I should have been using my Starrett micrometer the whole time. In reality Johns wheels are a bargain when all is taken into consideration and what small profit he does make is most likely put back into PWD research and development to bring us the latest and greatest innovations.
I think Kinser is just trying to save someone time, frustration and money. I dove headfirst into trying to lathe wheels and had no idea how complicated it was. My best work is not even half as good as Johns. The more I'm learning the more I realize why some guys are hush hush on turning wheels. Had I not tried to turn my own wheels and build my own fenders I'd probably have cars in Utah right now but instead I had to buy HSS bits, figure out how to sharpen them, cut and polish mandrel to size only to find out my chuck has runout, investigate collets, 4 jaw chucks and other options to eradicate the runout, figure out what shaped bit and cut angle to use on each cut, what speed, how to keep temperature down, can a spray lube help cutting and which one. And then when all that was said and done only to figure out my $15 harbor freight digital indicator is inaccurate by 2 thousandth and that I should have been using my Starrett micrometer the whole time. In reality Johns wheels are a bargain when all is taken into consideration and what small profit he does make is most likely put back into PWD research and development to bring us the latest and greatest innovations.
V
Vitamin K
Guest
"Runout" means the same thing as "out of round". Basically it is a measure of how far from a perfect circle a wheel happens to be. By rotating a wheel around a fixed point with a dial indicator compressed against the tread, you can watch for the amount of variation that the indicator registers. If the variation is minimal, the wheel is closer to round than if you have greater variation in wheel diameter.
OPARENNEN said:
OPARENNEN said:
OPA, I'm not sure if you're being serious or not!
I use a dial indicator to check how concentric the tread is to the bore of the wheel. You can use one of the gauges like Owens Racing posted a while back or you can just check the wheel on the mandrel in the lathe (after rotating it 180 degrees on the mandrel first!). The gauge like Owens posted shows the runout directly, if you do it on the lathe then you need to divide the indicated runout in half. The tool needs to have a proper fit in the bore of the wheel or you won't get an accurate reading because of the slop.
OPA:
Runout, as applied to PWD wheels, is a measure of how concentric the bore of the wheel is to the outer diameter (the tread) of the wheel. In other words, is the geometric center of the circle made by the wheel tread the exact same point as the geometric center of the circle that is the wheel bore.
Eccentric:
In my situation, where the rules do not allow any modifications to the wheel, the only gains can be found in finding wheels that have the least amount of runout. As far as I know, John doesn't sell a set of wheels that are not machined. A $30 dial indicator including magnetic base is going to give a good enough comparison of the wheels for a scout race as opposed to a $200 Starrett indicator not including the magnetic base.
Don't mean to start an argument, just wanted to give Whitaker717 a solution to the problem he presented.
Runout, as applied to PWD wheels, is a measure of how concentric the bore of the wheel is to the outer diameter (the tread) of the wheel. In other words, is the geometric center of the circle made by the wheel tread the exact same point as the geometric center of the circle that is the wheel bore.
Eccentric:
In my situation, where the rules do not allow any modifications to the wheel, the only gains can be found in finding wheels that have the least amount of runout. As far as I know, John doesn't sell a set of wheels that are not machined. A $30 dial indicator including magnetic base is going to give a good enough comparison of the wheels for a scout race as opposed to a $200 Starrett indicator not including the magnetic base.
Don't mean to start an argument, just wanted to give Whitaker717 a solution to the problem he presented.
G
Guest
Guest
I built this to measure runout. The wheelbore slips snugly over the polished gauge pin. The pin rotates and is very snug in the drilled holes. I use paint on graphite in the drilled holes to build up the tolerance so the pin rotates without runout. I would much rather have a dial test indicator than the cheap one in the picture but that's another day and another dollar.
bracketracer said:
I was really serious. Thanks for the explanation. It turns out I am doing exactly what you explained. I just had never heard of the term "Runout". I just called the procedure "out of round check"
For those who want a cheap way to check the wheel balance:
Put two "two-sided" razor blades, side by side into a PinkPearl erasor.
Cut a short piece of a rod (e.g. a nail with an OD large enough to be a tight fit thru the wheel bore) to a length of about 1 inch.
Put it into the wheel and set each end on the sharp edge of the razor. The heavy part of the wheel will instantly roll to the bottom. Pull the wheel, and either add weight to the top part, or using a Dremell, take off a bit of weight from the wheels inside. I did this with success for years until the magnetic balancers became available.
What we need is some type of indicator set up on the wheels as they race down the track to test for the amount of wheel wobble at each wheel. I guess if you had some type of tread mill with a smooth surface and had the car solidly attched to a beam to keep it all straight or a rail on the treadmill- track then we could test the wheel performance on the car.
Maximum-Velocity tested a sample of something like 2400 wheels and measured them for roundness, bore size, and perpendicularity. Mold #s 2, 7, 8, 12, and 15 were the best. (http://www.maximum-velocity.com/wheelaxleqa.htm#bsamold)
I have gone to the scout store and built up a tube of wheels made of these mold numbers. You can do this and save yourself a lot of time with trying to find the best wheels out of your own random sample.
- Eric
I have gone to the scout store and built up a tube of wheels made of these mold numbers. You can do this and save yourself a lot of time with trying to find the best wheels out of your own random sample.
- Eric
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