Greetings! I just built my 2nd pinewood derby car. I decided to try canting the wheels and using 1 lifted wheel. I tuned the car so that it veered 1 inch over 4 feet, so that the dfw veered into the rail. I got it just right, then superglued the axels in place. Well, once the glue dried, i test rolled the car down my test board and to my surprise, now the car is veering 1 inch over 4 feet away from the dominant front wheel. That means my lifted wheel is going to hit the rail, rather than the DFW. Now that I'm all superglued up, I'm not sure if I should just leave it as is and hope for the best, or else maybe explore other possible options to tweak the steering. Open to any suggestions you might have?
Problem With 3 Wheel Alignment
- Thread starter ChristopherK
- Start date
I'm definitely NOT a pro, but thought I'd give a swing at answering your question.
Super glue is definitely not permanent, and I would recommend removing the axles and redo the alignment. Going as is will kill your speed, eliminating the purpose of a 3 wheel rider as you NDFW will be dragging the rail.
Remove and be more aggressive. Don't do just 1 inch, do 4 inches over 4 feet. You will have much better results.
Once you have it tuned, try it a few more times to make sure it's consistent. Don't do just once, 5-10 times. You want a consistent steer each time. Once aligned, 4" over 4', carefully glue them in without moving a bit. Most likely when you installed them, the DFW was moved by accident. It's easy to do. You may even want to glue all axles in place except the DFW, that way you don't risk moving them once you aligned.
The super glue shouldn't be a problem as far as pulling the axles out. Just be careful! Use an axle pull if you have one. The glue will most likely work to your advantage when you install the wheel back, at it will be more snug and less likely to move as you glue it.
Super glue is definitely not permanent, and I would recommend removing the axles and redo the alignment. Going as is will kill your speed, eliminating the purpose of a 3 wheel rider as you NDFW will be dragging the rail.
Remove and be more aggressive. Don't do just 1 inch, do 4 inches over 4 feet. You will have much better results.
Once you have it tuned, try it a few more times to make sure it's consistent. Don't do just once, 5-10 times. You want a consistent steer each time. Once aligned, 4" over 4', carefully glue them in without moving a bit. Most likely when you installed them, the DFW was moved by accident. It's easy to do. You may even want to glue all axles in place except the DFW, that way you don't risk moving them once you aligned.
The super glue shouldn't be a problem as far as pulling the axles out. Just be careful! Use an axle pull if you have one. The glue will most likely work to your advantage when you install the wheel back, at it will be more snug and less likely to move as you glue it.
If you have a K house or tuning groove cut in your axle head it’s no problem getting the axle out. Just give it a twist & break the glue joint. Going back in, use a tooth pick with a dot of wood glue on it for the axle hole. You’ll have time to set your steer before the glue sets.
4-5 inches of steer, good to go!
4-5 inches of steer, good to go!
Thank you very much for the help. I don’t have a tuning groove and not quite sure what a K house is. I just used a #44 drill bit to bore the axel slot a little, got the car aligned, then pressed the nail in there, by hand, then superglued. Do you think I could use an axel puller and just pull it straight out? The other question is reinserting the axel once I get it out. So, I would put the toothpick in the slot with a little wood glue, then just push the nail between the bottom of the slot and the toothpick - is that right? Sorry ahead for the remedial question, but the whole pinewood thing is brand new to me this year.
If it is not crazy tight you can pull it out by the wheel. I have used the axle pliers before and noticed that they can scratch the axle head. Not sure about any of the other axle pullers. They also dont seem to work real well if you have tight wheel gaps. I always thought I may mess up the wheels by pulling them but have not actually had an issue.
I know k house was a racer who made jigs to help cut the tuning grooves, my guess is that's where the name comes from.
Also if you slots are exposed you can always try to pop it out with a flat head screwdriver.
Just read that they are glued so pulling on the wheel may not be the best idea.
Buyer beware pulling the axle out by the wheel. That plastic IS soft. You can and will damage a bore. Even the slightest deformation to the rim can seriously screw up your wheels ability to spin and visually not be noticeable damage unless you know how to spot it and are using an eye loupe or some form of magnifying glass. I say this from experience... BAD experience.
Definitely be careful pulling out! I'm with Jimmy on this. I actually had one wheel snap, so the outer rim broke off, the inner bore was still wrapped around the axle! Never again will I do that. I don't glue the axle in permanently now, just enough to hold it's position, that way if there is a problem I can yank it out with no damage. If you can use axle pliers, meaning your wheel gaps aren't too tight, I'd go that route, just be careful not to scratch anything up! Hold it firm so it won't slide and scratch the axle, but not too firm so it won't gouge. I have never had a problem, but sure it can happen. Don't just pull out, twist back and forth first small increments until it breaks. Then pull it out.
I don't think Ballistic is saying insert a toothpick and leave it inserted. I think he is saying put a dot of glue on the end of the toothpick, insert it so the glue goes into the axle hole, then remove the toothpick once the glue has been transferred. That is actually brilliant!
In cases that the gap is too tight and I absolutely can't get my pliers in and know I may break the wheel, I have removed them with the Derby Worx Pro Axle Guide. I sanded the actual gauge part so it goes from thin at the top, to thick at the bottom...with me so far? So where you insert it into the wheel gap, it's thin. I insert it into the wheel gap, and gently apply pressure. As it gets thicker, it should move the wheel out of the hole with no damage. Be careful though! Don't want to damage the wheel! If you don't get it behind the wheel, but on top of it, you are going to kill the plastic of the wheel around where it touches the wood and destroy it.
I imagine you could use other things to do this with, just need a flat thin piece of metal with a axle slot cut into it shaved thin on one end, wedging up to thick. I used a Derby Worx Pro Axle Guile because honestly, it felt good to actually find a good use for it! I've yet to damage a wheel with it.
Name of the game, is be careful with all these methods.
Play around and find something that works for you! Don't be scared to experiment. You most likely aren't going to mess anything up, and if you do, it is fixable. When I broke the wheel removing it, I simply took a wheel of the same color, prepped it, and put it on the non dominant side where it's not used, just floats. Three good wheels still, even though one wasn't AS good (They were lightly lathed and trued). Worked great. There is always a solution and finding it is half of the fun.
I don't think Ballistic is saying insert a toothpick and leave it inserted. I think he is saying put a dot of glue on the end of the toothpick, insert it so the glue goes into the axle hole, then remove the toothpick once the glue has been transferred. That is actually brilliant!
In cases that the gap is too tight and I absolutely can't get my pliers in and know I may break the wheel, I have removed them with the Derby Worx Pro Axle Guide. I sanded the actual gauge part so it goes from thin at the top, to thick at the bottom...with me so far? So where you insert it into the wheel gap, it's thin. I insert it into the wheel gap, and gently apply pressure. As it gets thicker, it should move the wheel out of the hole with no damage. Be careful though! Don't want to damage the wheel! If you don't get it behind the wheel, but on top of it, you are going to kill the plastic of the wheel around where it touches the wood and destroy it.
I imagine you could use other things to do this with, just need a flat thin piece of metal with a axle slot cut into it shaved thin on one end, wedging up to thick. I used a Derby Worx Pro Axle Guile because honestly, it felt good to actually find a good use for it! I've yet to damage a wheel with it.
Name of the game, is be careful with all these methods.
Play around and find something that works for you! Don't be scared to experiment. You most likely aren't going to mess anything up, and if you do, it is fixable. When I broke the wheel removing it, I simply took a wheel of the same color, prepped it, and put it on the non dominant side where it's not used, just floats. Three good wheels still, even though one wasn't AS good (They were lightly lathed and trued). Worked great. There is always a solution and finding it is half of the fun.
So I got myself and axel puller and I pulled the nail head with quite a bit of force and the nail didn't budge. I felt like if I pulled any harder, I would probably damage something. It occurred to me to test it, just for kicks, to see if something might have shifted in my favor, before I pulled harder and likely damage something. Well, to my surprise, it's now going in the correct direction, veering about 4 inches over 4 feet. I raced it on my tuning board several times against a car my friend built that was a known fast car. My car was faster every test. All of the wheels seem to be functioning correctly. I guess I'll be thankful for my good luck, put a little extra glue in the joint, graphite the heck out of the wheels, and wait for race day. I really appreciate all of the help on this forum.
I don't understand the "put a little extra glue in" part. Its in there so hard you can't pull it with pliers and its running correctly. . . put the car down and back away slowly.
Man, where can I get some of that luck? I've seriously had multiple cars that are fine one day, test the next on a whim and they are WAY off.
My guess is that nothing changed ....except how you placed it on the tuning board. A person needs to be careful and CONSISTENT on how a car is placed on the tuning board. Incorrect placement can cause a 2"-4" variation in how the car appears to steer. Yes I have done the same thing!
You also need to be sure that the tuning board is level every time you test! Differences in how level it is can also cause a couple inches of steer variations. Keep your cue ball or your large ball bearing close and double check your tuning board often.
One other tidbit...next time try twisting the axle while pulling to break it loose. Since the car is where you want it now, I would wait until you need to change something before trying the twist trick. I would be very surprised if twisting does not break it loose.
I don’t know. I used a piece of MDF. I have a line down the middle where I line up the left wheel then 6 lines to the left that also run the length of the board. I have 6 steel balls that I swiped from one of my son’s games that I roll down to test for level. I keep shimming the board until the balls roll close to perfectly down the center. Once I get consistent center rolls, I then start testing the car. I tested at least 10 rolls before I concluded the car was steering to the right. I set things up the same way again today when i re-tested the car. I guess anything is possible, but I worked pretty hard to eliminate outside variables. My gut feeling is that the bend in the front DFW axel problably straightened every so slightly.
It is possible that something changed ...just to let you know, if you don't have the car in the exact same position each time (lined up exactly the same), that the steer can be noticeably different.
I use a back stop that is marked for wheel location. I also have a guide strip that is about 18" long. That way when I release the car, it has a chance moved to the guide strip ( just like it would on the track) and take a set before clearing the end of the strip. That way I KNOW that the car is released from the exact same position each time and can reproduce consistaent tests.
I used to eyeball the line up and thought I was close. I found out after adding the guide strip, that I was not as good as I thought.
I really like that idea for lining up the car! I didn’t actually consider that an inconsistent line up might be skewing my results.
One more final thing. The race is a week and a half away. I was told it’s a good idea to maybe graphite and spin the wheels once per day. Is that just a waste o time and graphite?
