Car weights

[Pacfanweb]

I won’t argue that they have been allowed in the race. The fact of the matter is what the rules say and what they have let pass through... This is exactly why people speak poorly of this race. It does not say aftermarket axles are allowed. I. Have been to 2016 and 2017 and have copies of the rules for both races.

I never said they were allowed... only implying that they have been passed through.
Ok, let’s do this. Find the rules and post where it’s says aftermarket axles are allowed and I will gladly eat my words!

If you have the 2016 rules then you will know that Pro Stock absolutely allowed aftermarket axles, but you want someone to provide them?
To quote from the rules of that year:
"Axles:
 Nail type axles are to be used. You may or may not choose to use those found in the Official Pinewood Derby kit."

Vs. the Stock rules:
" BSA axles may be polished, deburred and lubricated but must be left otherwise untouched – period."

 

[Laserman]

So in SS, where a pre 2009 wheel might be used, if you had some pre 2009 wheels on your car with wheel weights, the winner would be a fair test, or if both SS cars used post 2009 wheels, also fair and the winner would be ...?
Remember, you have the likes of DWS, JBD and Hurricrane all very good with either wheel, and repeat customers for TxW weights.

Hi TX,
I really don’t see anything very special about your weights, other than the rules for league racing have put my Cub Weights at a serious disadvantage. So... I proposed a series of races to be held with new wheels to sort out these competing viewpoints. Sort of like a scientific experiment. Thoughts?

 

[down4derby]

Hi TX,
I really don’t see anything very special about your weights, other than the rules for league racing have put my Cub Weights at a serious disadvantage. So... I proposed a series of races to be held with new wheels to sort out these competing viewpoints. Sort of like a scientific experiment. Thoughts?

I have had some success using wheel cavity weights. That would make sense, as I invented the concept in the first place!

 

[Laserman]

Congrats on your recent Governor win Scott!

 

[Laserman]

Next time you chat with those Nipwordle guys, can you pass them a message for me?
The Laserman Forum is tired of the Pre 2009 BSA wheels... and we are done asking for a change.

 

[Kyle Racing]

So Joe, that is the second time that I heard someone say that Down4Derby came up with the wheel weight idea. Is that true? Did you take someone else’s idea and go get a patent on it?

 

[Laserman]

No Greg,
That is not true.

Unbeknownst to me, Down4Derby was apparently attaching fender washers on his car around the same time I started creating prototypes of side weights using laser cut discs of acrylic with 3/16” tungsten cubes inserted in voids. I was brand new to PWD at the time and if I knew then how much trouble the idea would cause me I would have run from the hobby at top speed. I posted some photos on a couple of forums and it has been battles ever since...(actually everyone wanted to be my friend at first) but I have come too far and fought and won too many at this point to stop. If Scott thinks that I stole his idea then I suggest that he take it up with the USPTO.

 

[Laserman]

I made my photos of the idea public on forums (as I often do) and Scott likes to keep his innovations to himself... So I released my idea to the world and Scott may have been working on something similar, or he may have seen what I was doing and copied it. It really doesn’t matter which... because there was no way I knew what he was doing and so the law give me one year to file for a provisional patent. I filed and waited almost the maximum time of another year to file for the actual patent. This was all documented and made public on an ad with a vendor. Almost 3 years after coming up with the original prototypes I was granted the patent. (Relatively quick for a patent, this was my third). Then it really started to hit the fan... and not with Scott... but with a guy that literally owns the PWD tungsten market.

 

[Laserman]

Getting the feeling like TXChemist might not be in the mood for scientific experiments.

 

[Kyle Racing]

I remember when the wheel weights first came out. They were the bomb and everyone wanted them. I am not sure how long that you and John were running them on a select few racers before you introduced them to the public but everyone felt they needed them to be competitive. Then like any other form of racing someone figured out something faster. Unfortunately for you that happened to be a wheel that your weights do not fit in. So now it is unfair and all the leagues are rigged because they won’t ban the wheels that made your weights obsolete for now. Maybe one day all the pre 2009 wheels will be gone and people will want to go back to the wheel weights but why would anyone want to now if the older wheels are faster? You have said that only a select few get them. No where on DD4H site does it say that they are only for certain people. You have said that $50 is too expensive. Well a set of new style wheels will cost $35 then add $25 for your weights and you are at $60. Why would anyone want to pay more to go slower?

 

[Laserman]

Well... I am impartial to the wheels for a number of reasons Greg. The cost is one reason...but I am not alone with my feelings towards them. You are obviously familiar with my views toward the wheels and have heard the possible benefits of doing away with the wheels for certain classes. The Laserman Forum lobbied for a change at Nipwordle nearly a year ago and were only successful in changing the rules for 1 class... we think that by having an SS class with only new wheels we can bring more builders to John’s new league.

 

[HurriCrane Racing]

A wheel change won't change anything about the SS class. What it is going to take is a glue on fender that is competitive.
Most racers just don't want to take on the challenge of making fenders by hand. It's not the wheels, it's the fenders...

 

[Ember]

I remember when the wheel weights first came out. They were the bomb and everyone wanted them. I am not sure how long that you and John were running them on a select few racers before you introduced them to the public but everyone felt they needed them to be competitive. Then like any other form of racing someone figured out something faster. Unfortunately for you that happened to be a wheel that your weights do not fit in. So now it is unfair and all the leagues are rigged because they won’t ban the wheels that made your weights obsolete for now. Maybe one day all the pre 2009 wheels will be gone and people will want to go back to the wheel weights but why would anyone want to now if the older wheels are faster? You have said that only a select few get them. No where on DD4H site does it say that they are only for certain people. You have said that $50 is too expensive. Well a set of new style wheels will cost $35 then add $25 for your weights and you are at $60. Why would anyone want to pay more to go slower?

Your math is curious, you compare the price of a set of wheels and weights, to the price of just a set of wheels.

In actuality, a set of pre-09 wheels, plus an equal amount of Tx weight, would cost about $72. Not to mention the air shields you would need to purchase to match the aero advantage wheel weights provide.

It's also curious that 1/3 of your total posts since joining the forum in 2014 are dedicated to questioning wheel weights...when combining that fact, along with your antithetical math, one might think you have an agenda.

Additionally, stock new style wheels are much faster than stock old style wheels. The only reason anyone would choose to use an old style wheel is when there is a wheel weight specification in place... e.g . 2g SS wheels, in that event you can machine an old style wheel to have a lower moi than that of a new style wheel. Essentially, old style wheels have a benefit for perhaps 100 people who race in leagues throughout the country, the other 2 million Pinewood racers using new style wheels can benefit from the use of wheel weights.

As to what is faster......a car with 2g new style wheels with Puma weights, with its remaining weight being Tx weight....or a car with 2g old style wheels, with all of its weight being Tx weight....that would be a very interesting experiment.

 

[Mojo Racing]

Build a couple cars and test them. That will put all of your questions to rest, and you will finally know.

 

[Laserman]

Let me break it down for you guys...
It is like starting a billiards league when most fellas just want to play pool... like they do in their local tavern.
just sayin'

 

[Ember]

Build a couple cars and test them. That will put all of your questions to rest, and you will finally know.

You can't ever really know can you?. I mean you can try and build two different, but equal cars, but they are never truly equal . You would need many people building many cars to get some sort of empirical pattern.

 

[Kyle Racing]

Your math is curious, you compare the price of a set of wheels and weights, to the price of just a set of wheels.

In actuality, a set of pre-09 wheels, plus an equal amount of Tx weight, would cost about $72. Not to mention the air shields you would need to purchase to match the aero advantage wheel weights provide.

It's also curious that 1/3 of your total posts since joining the forum in 2014 are dedicated to questioning wheel weights...when combining that fact, along with your antithetical math, one might think you have an agenda.

Additionally, stock new style wheels are much faster than stock old style wheels. The only reason anyone would choose to use an old style wheel is when there is a wheel weight specification in place... e.g . 2g SS wheels, in that event you can machine an old style wheel to have a lower moi than that of a new style wheel. Essentially, old style wheels have a benefit for perhaps 100 people who race in leagues throughout the country, the other 2 million Pinewood racers using new style wheels can benefit from the use of wheel weights.

As to what is faster......a car with 2g new style wheels with Puma weights, with its remaining weight being Tx weight....or a car with 2g old style wheels, with all of its weight being Tx weight....that would be a very interesting experiment.

For a guy that says he has absolutely no interest in league racing sure spends a lot of time on other boards complaining about how unfair and biased the leagues are. One might say you have an agenda. Yes, I have been on the boards for a while and do not post much. Right now, I am JAFO. I have been working on an Unlimited car for over a year now and can’t seem to get my crap together enough to get it done. So, I admire the hell out of guys like Hurricrane, JBD, Mojo, Maglev, Zeebzob, Skywalker, King, DWS and every other racer that has their crap together and work their butts off that send in multiple cars every month supporting a hobby that I love and want to be apart of. So, my agenda is to speak out against people like you that sit around on other forums whining, complaining and bashing on these guys that I admire. If you care about the league races, build a car and race it. Then make suggestions on how to make it better. If you don’t care about league racing, like you said you don’t, then STHU!

 

[Mojo Racing]

You can't ever really know can you?. I mean you can try and build two different, but equal cars, but they are never truly equal . You would need many people building many cars to get some sort of empirical pattern.

You really can't know if you don't make a build and see for yourself.

Everything else would just be hearsay

 

[txchemist]

Laserman- you are correct, nothing special at all, in fact in my ads, I suggest that Cub racers do NOT spend that kind of money and instead go for the cheap stuff. Most clever marketers will tell you that one can not be both the high end specialty and the low end commodity supplier, but I did that in Semiconductor with no problem, and so far I have growth in both the high end and the cheap end. I have all kinds of weird users that were just looking for the lowest cost 2 oz of tungsten buy my semipro bars. Since you are such a champion of a low cost Cub solution, how about a cost limit of $12.50 retail for the weights and we race those cars. No, that will not work, your retail is $24.95

 

[Laserman]

I am a champion of nothing TX...